Swing vs bebop

[joe2758]

match the tempos roughly using speed control

What are the differences after taking tempo out of the equation?

[Christian Miller]

More upbeats in bebop phrasing for one


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[joe2758]

Yeah so I'm in my vocabulary stuffing phase and it's all bebop lines from the greats.

Then I thought "I'm playing these all at medium swing tempo..am I just playing swing?"

[Strat-itis]

The CP sounds a little more melodically regularized for execution at higher tempos. But it still does seem like the goal of bebop is to use mellifluous syntax like swing, just faster.

[joe2758]

I wonder if I played a bunch of bebop licks you guys could identify which ones would be out of place in a swing style

[Strat-itis]

Play some CP solo for us at 120.

[andrew]

This is an interesting discussion for sure. It's impossible to draw a hard line in the sand. But speaking in generalities, bebop makes much greater use of altered chords (sharp and flat 5ths and 9ths in particular), chromaticism, more complex chord changes, and more chord substitutions. Swing also tends to resolve phrases more to the 'butter' notes like the root and the fifth, whereas in bebop, notes can more typically resolve other places (a D over a CMaj7 for example).

But as I said, the two aren't mutually exclusive. Charlie Christian is a great example of someone who, although most wouldn't quite consider him bebop, he certain paved the way for it (prebop?). There are a lot of things in his playing that don't take much extrapolation to get to bebop.

[kris]

match the tempos roughly using speed control

What are the differences after taking tempo out of the equation?

I like both recordings.
It is very good music.
In both cases, these outstanding musicians swinging and I like that very much.

[Hep To The Jive]

match the tempos roughly using speed control

What are the differences after taking tempo out of the equation?

Is it Buddy Rich? Wow just a hi hat, no other cymbals in sight hahaa. So there is one difference.

The swing one is more chill, could be more inviting for a casual listener. The bebop one, even with bad sound quality can hear more adventurous playing, which is what bebop is. Both are great. For me I'd prefer the swing style rhythm section to solo over, much more comfortable.

[Cunamara]

It's a different time feel from the rhythm section, a different swing even though both are recognizable as swinging. I hear slightly more of an 8th note feel in bebop drums/bass compared to pre-bop. And the rythmic phrasing of the soloists also tends to be different along the same lines.

[kris]

One soup is lukewarm and the other is hot.
Both are very tasty....maybe one of these soups is more salty...?
It all makes sense.