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I'm in the house band for a couple of jams, mostly on bass, unless another bassist turns up.
Last night's jam involved a complaint being passed on to the house band from a member of the audience. The complaint was that the jam was sounding far too much like an open mic; too many pop, blues, soul etc. singers wanting a backing band and not enough jazz. They were quite right - this particular jam has been going more and more that way, and it's no longer fun. The organiser appreciates the issue but is reluctant to turn people away, particularly now that this sort of singer has started to bring in a larger audience (though several of them got up to leave when a pop singer finished and a good singer of proper jazz standards got up to follow her, which didn't go down well). We got a couple more horn players than usual and a good guitarist, but it didn't shift things much.
This jam was the one where I would occasionally get to do a bit of guitar, but I haven't seen any other bass players for a couple of sessions now and I get the impression that they might also have been put off.
Has anyone else encountered this sort of thing, and do you have any suggestions?
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06-01-2026 04:48 AM
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Thanks - those sound like interesting ideas for instrumentalists.
I've not seen that video and will take a look.
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I played at a jam session, where four female singers showed off their talent.
Originally Posted by gvurrdon
It was something terrible. Each of them could not finish her singing and entered during the solo of a different instrument/guitar,sax,keyboard/.
Their knowledge of jazz standards was zero.
All the time, the girls were pushing for cover songs.
I suggested one of Amy Winehouse's 4-chords compositions – a simple song.
They were delighted, but I won't come there again.
A nightmare.
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For a jazz jam, this is what the singer should have prepared as sheets for the band. If it’s not going to be a standard, at least have a jazz arrangement. Originally Posted by brent.h
And… that’s all I’ll say.
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They sing especially when they drink two beers. Originally Posted by brent.h
jam...forget about arrangements and notes....
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Yeah, I mean, if you're cool with a jazz jam turning into an open mic playing Bobby McGee and Tennessee Whisky. Where the band and the singer are all playing off their phones.... not great. Band is using iReal because it's out of our repertoire, singer is using their phone because they never know the words for songs they call...
I'll pass, I'd rather be home playing arpeggios to a metronome. That's more artistically satisfying than bombing songs all night because "you'll hear it, you're a jazz player" There's a misconception that as jazz artists, we excel at all genres, but that was a few session players who also played jazz, the exception.
I'm good at jazz standards and jazz forms AABA you know... Not "a bluesy original" that's intro, verse, chorus, verse, bridge, chorus, chorus, bridge, verse, solo (this is a new progression), repeat chorus until signal.
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Running a jam session is a real challenge, the rhythm section, soloists, singers, the actual audience, the club patrons who just came in for drinks, the owner all have different criteria for what makes a 'good' night...
Can you structure it so there's a "Vocalist Set" and "Instrumental Set" (or better yet, talk the club into another night for the singers...)
I think the key to dealing with singers is to limit the soloists for their tunes, nobody needs to hear six tenors, four trumpets, guitar piano and bass each take a chorus on "Good Morning Heartache" A good session I frequented in my formative years used to bring each singer up for a mini-set, a medium swing or Bossa, ballad and an up tempo closer, with maybe one chorus of instrumental on the last number, and then the band could get back to "Yes or No" or "One Finger Snap" and everyone was happy
Best wishes for your music!
PK
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It's interesting, there has been lots of threads about the downside of jams recently. I swear when I frequented this forum in the past it was all "go to any jam you can" and literally "there is no other way to get good" "there's no point if you don't play with other people" "a live jam is worth a year of practice" etc...I was just like "Guess I'll never be good *shrug*"
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I like both open mic on pop tunes and jazz jams and I do both weekly.
But, they're separate venues. Each one has an unspoken rule about repertoire. One is "anything" and the other is "jazz".
In the OP's situation, maybe the rule needs to be spoken. But, the owner is trying to sell stuff and probably won't like a rule that drives customers away.
So, if there's one singer, or a few, maybe it would be worth discussing repertoire, pointing out that the better players want to be challenged or they won't show up. So maybe the singers could move more towards challenging material, e.g., jazz tunes. If they can do that, everyone, including the players, singers and owner are happy.
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Originally Posted by joe2758
All those anecdotes are still true. There are downsides to a poorly run jam, but any jam is going to be better than playing to iReal. As someone who moonlights with a trio almost every weekend, I don't have time to go to jams with my square career and family commitments. Sunday there was a jam one town over from me with 2 people I really like, but I played a farmers market in the morning and didn't want to be gone 8am-8pm on Sunday. The market was about 90 minutes drive each way... pretty far.
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Thanks! Originally Posted by paulkogut
It worked quite well when we followed a pop original with a vocal jazz standard with just guitar, bass and drums accompanying the singer.
I'd really like to separate the vocal open mic material, as well as the blues etc., but someone would have to organise it and I'd rather it wasn't me.
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The rules, such as they are, are on the jam's site and get mentioned in the Whatsapp chat, but I don't think people are reading them, or if they are they're not paying attention. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
I think the pub owner will be very happy with the crowds brought in by things as they stand, and the inclusivity certainly pleases people.
I'd be a lot happier if I were a horn player or a decent guitarist and could sit out, take a chorus, or go to the bar as I pleased.Last edited by gvurrdon; 06-02-2026 at 06:28 AM.
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It's very simple but you have to be willing to be blunt.
"This is a jazz jam and you are selecting pop/soul/blues songs. We aren't doing that"
Problem solved.
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That's the way to do it. Just be nice, honest, straight-up and completely unyielding. Originally Posted by DawgBone
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I would suggest not doing this. Originally Posted by brent.h
It's great if you've got a working band who are up for it and you can arrange things and so on, but in the context of a jam session it will make everybody unhappy, both the pop singers AND the jazz musicians lol.
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IME over the course of many gigs and jams I came to realize that catering only increases the likelihood of them hating you when you finally decide not to, or can no longer, continue catering to them. You acquiesce to one or two requests, now the great disappointment comes when you are unwilling or unable to fulfill other requests. The end result is worse than just saying "I don't play that kind of music" right out of the gate. Lo and behold, that is what appears to have happened to the OP's jam. Now the problem is exacerbated because acquiescing has come to be expected. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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That would be my preference, if it was my choice. But, I must abide by the house band consensus. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
What I will be doing is inviting a few good horn players and providing them with some hard bop charts, then making sure they get on near the middle of the jam.
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Tricky situation then. If it’s a paid gig and the money is good, grin and bear it. If not, and you aren’t having fun, stop doing it. Originally Posted by gvurrdon
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Most jams start out good then over time degenerate, until the least skilled are the only ones that show up.
We all have to decide just how many times we want to sit through Wagon Wheel.
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^
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The look on someone’s face when I say I don’t know Tennessee Whiskey. Then someone in the band pipes up, when they shouldn’t, that we can play some Johnny Cash…. Great, now I’m talking both sides of the room down. Originally Posted by BBGuitar
I am a jazz artist, I was hired to play jazz, I know jazz tunes.
If I was OP, I’d quit the group. Life’s too short to play bad gigs. I could be home practicing.
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That stupid song smh....at least the brown eyed girl and mustang sally requests have died down the past few years....only to be replaced by something worse. Oh well do you know "wagon wheel"? sigh.... Originally Posted by AllanAllen
If you haven't played enough bad gigs to gag a maggot, you haven't played enough gigs. Certain gigs must be avoided because they are bad, other gigs just happen to be bad. It's how you build the stagecraft...."can you play Tennessee Whiskey?" The correct answer is "we only drink Kentucky Bourbon in this band" thereby sidestepping the fact that they were requesting a song and implying they were asking the band if we wanted shots of liquor. Sometimes the projection of extreme ignorance and stupidity is a more effective way of dealing with the ignorant, stupid sort of person who requests TN whiskey from a blues or jazz group....
I should be charging for this advice but even if I was I'd still be broke LOL.
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Congrats, Kris, you just lived this old joke Originally Posted by kris
Q: How do you know a chick singer is at the door?
A: She can't find the key and doesn't know when to come in.
Yep, apologies for this totally misogynistic interlude. But... calm down, its a JOKE, folks. You know what they say about people who can't take a joke...
I should also mentioned that I have worked with a number of GREAT female vocalists, who had all the chops and savvy of any instrumentalist on the stand. This joke is not about them, nor is it about the plethora of awesome chick singers that hang out on JGO.Last edited by starjasmine; 06-04-2026 at 12:10 AM.
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LOooove when Morgan James sits in with them. She also did an episode of Emmet Cohen's jam. IDK why she isn't more well known. Originally Posted by brent.h
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Maybe you could just talk to the owner of the venue to clarify expectations. Is it a jazz jam or an open mic? Is it more important to sell drinks to anybody and their friend who wants to sing, or is there a certain standard of musicianship or style of music that is expected? I knew of a bar in SF North Beach that had jazz on Weds nights just to keep the bartenders happy on a typically slow night. They didn't care whether the crowd was into it. The trio was literally there cuz the bar staff liked jazz.
One way to thread the needle at your jam is to invite noobs up only for short periods of time, interspersing them with the better players, who get more time. That's kind of the unwritten rule of any jazz jam: If you are killin' it, you may find yourself on the stand for an extended set. If you flail, you get maybe only one tune before it is someone else's turn.
A corollary, which is also kind of an unwritten operating plan for many jams, is to make the noobs wait late into the evening for their chance*, after all the tried-n-true players have turned in a few hours of good music. That keeps people in the house longer, sells more drinks, doesn't drive away audience who don't want to hear noobs, and then subjects only the diehard alcoholics to the flailings of the noobs.
Good luck ... keep us posted as to the evolution (devolution?) of this jam...
*See "paying dues" in The Official Jazz Musician's Handbook or in any movie about playing jazz.Last edited by starjasmine; 06-04-2026 at 12:09 AM.
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