Jazz jam audience drift

[gvurrdon]

I'm in the house band for a couple of jams, mostly on bass, unless another bassist turns up.
Last night's jam involved a complaint being passed on to the house band from a member of the audience. The complaint was that the jam was sounding far too much like an open mic; too many pop, blues, soul etc. singers wanting a backing band and not enough jazz. They were quite right - this particular jam has been going more and more that way, and it's no longer fun. The organiser appreciates the issue but is reluctant to turn people away, particularly now that this sort of singer has started to bring in a larger audience (though several of them got up to leave when a pop singer finished and a good singer of proper jazz standards got up to follow her, which didn't go down well). We got a couple more horn players than usual and a good guitarist, but it didn't shift things much.
This jam was the one where I would occasionally get to do a bit of guitar, but I haven't seen any other bass players for a couple of sessions now and I get the impression that they might also have been put off.
Has anyone else encountered this sort of thing, and do you have any suggestions?

[brent.h]

1) Take modern tunes, radio hits, etc. convert them into 'jammable formats' like AABA.

2) Play a pop tune once thru and have an extended ending for solos.

3) Some recent pop tunes have no bridges. Verse Chorus Verse Chorus done. So you could look for those songs and do a quick 20-30 second arrangement with the players about where solos can start/end before counting off.

[gvurrdon]

Thanks - those sound like interesting ideas for instrumentalists.
I've not seen that video and will take a look.

[brent.h]

Check out postmodern jukebox on youtube too! They feature singers primarily.

[kris]

I'm in the house band for a couple of jams, mostly on bass, unless another bassist turns up.
Last night's jam involved a complaint being passed on to the house band from a member of the audience. The complaint was that the jam was sounding far too much like an open mic; too many pop, blues, soul etc. singers wanting a backing band and not enough jazz. They were quite right - this particular jam has been going more and more that way, and it's no longer fun. The organiser appreciates the issue but is reluctant to turn people away, particularly now that this sort of singer has started to bring in a larger audience (though several of them got up to leave when a pop singer finished and a good singer of proper jazz standards got up to follow her, which didn't go down well). We got a couple more horn players than usual and a good guitarist, but it didn't shift things much.
This jam was the one where I would occasionally get to do a bit of guitar, but I haven't seen any other bass players for a couple of sessions now and I get the impression that they might also have been put off.
Has anyone else encountered this sort of thing, and do you have any suggestions?

I played at a jam session, where four female singers showed off their talent.
It was something terrible. Each of them could not finish her singing and entered during the solo of a different instrument/guitar,sax,keyboard/.
Their knowledge of jazz standards was zero.
All the time, the girls were pushing for cover songs.
I suggested one of Amy Winehouse's 4-chords compositions – a simple song.
They were delighted, but I won't come there again.
A nightmare.

[AllanAllen]

1) Take modern tunes, radio hits, etc. convert them into 'jammable formats' like AABA.

2) Play a pop tune once thru and have an extended ending for solos.

3) Some recent pop tunes have no bridges. Verse Chorus Verse Chorus done. So you could look for those songs and do a quick 20-30 second arrangement with the players about where solos can start/end before counting off.

For a jazz jam, this is what the singer should have prepared as sheets for the band. If it’s not going to be a standard, at least have a jazz arrangement.

And… that’s all I’ll say.

[brent.h]

but singers be singers bruh

[kris]

but singers be singers bruh

They sing especially when they drink two beers.
jam...forget about arrangements and notes....

[AllanAllen]

Yeah, I mean, if you're cool with a jazz jam turning into an open mic playing Bobby McGee and Tennessee Whisky. Where the band and the singer are all playing off their phones.... not great. Band is using iReal because it's out of our repertoire, singer is using their phone because they never know the words for songs they call...

I'll pass, I'd rather be home playing arpeggios to a metronome. That's more artistically satisfying than bombing songs all night because "you'll hear it, you're a jazz player" There's a misconception that as jazz artists, we excel at all genres, but that was a few session players who also played jazz, the exception.

I'm good at jazz standards and jazz forms AABA you know... Not "a bluesy original" that's intro, verse, chorus, verse, bridge, chorus, chorus, bridge, verse, solo (this is a new progression), repeat chorus until signal.

[brent.h]

Yeah, I mean, if you're cool with a jazz jam turning into an open mic playing Bobby McGee and Tennessee Whisky. Where the band and the singer are all playing off their phones.... not great. Band is using iReal because it's out of our repertoire, singer is using their phone because they never know the words for songs they call...

I'll pass, I'd rather be home playing arpeggios to a metronome. That's more artistically satisfying than bombing songs all night because "you'll hear it, you're a jazz player" There's a misconception that as jazz artists, we excel at all genres, but that was a few session players who also played jazz, the exception.

I'm good at jazz standards and jazz forms AABA you know... Not "a bluesy original" that's intro, verse, chorus, verse, bridge, chorus, chorus, bridge, verse, solo (this is a new progression), repeat chorus until signal.

When i first started going to jams, i was like "whoa so cool i get ta comp behind you"

Now singers just irritate me lol

Me: Key?
Them: Uhm
Me: (plays)
Them: Higher, no wait lower
Me: (plays)
Them: Can you give me the root? The key of the song? Like the home base?

Me:

[paulkogut]

Running a jam session is a real challenge, the rhythm section, soloists, singers, the actual audience, the club patrons who just came in for drinks, the owner all have different criteria for what makes a 'good' night...

Can you structure it so there's a "Vocalist Set" and "Instrumental Set" (or better yet, talk the club into another night for the singers...)

I think the key to dealing with singers is to limit the soloists for their tunes, nobody needs to hear six tenors, four trumpets, guitar piano and bass each take a chorus on "Good Morning Heartache" A good session I frequented in my formative years used to bring each singer up for a mini-set, a medium swing or Bossa, ballad and an up tempo closer, with maybe one chorus of instrumental on the last number, and then the band could get back to "Yes or No" or "One Finger Snap" and everyone was happy

Best wishes for your music!

PK

[joe2758]

It's interesting, there has been lots of threads about the downside of jams recently. I swear when I frequented this forum in the past it was all "go to any jam you can" and literally "there is no other way to get good" "there's no point if you don't play with other people" "a live jam is worth a year of practice" etc...I was just like "Guess I'll never be good *shrug*"

[rpjazzguitar]

I like both open mic on pop tunes and jazz jams and I do both weekly.

But, they're separate venues. Each one has an unspoken rule about repertoire. One is "anything" and the other is "jazz".

In the OP's situation, maybe the rule needs to be spoken. But, the owner is trying to sell stuff and probably won't like a rule that drives customers away.

So, if there's one singer, or a few, maybe it would be worth discussing repertoire, pointing out that the better players want to be challenged or they won't show up. So maybe the singers could move more towards challenging material, e.g., jazz tunes. If they can do that, everyone, including the players, singers and owner are happy.

[AllanAllen]

It's interesting, there has been lots of threads about the downside of jams recently. I swear when I frequented this forum in the past it was all "go to any jam you can" and literally "there is no other way to get good" "there's no point if you don't play with other people" "a live jam is worth a year of practice" etc...I was just like "Guess I'll never be good *shrug*"

All those anecdotes are still true. There are downsides to a poorly run jam, but any jam is going to be better than playing to iReal. As someone who moonlights with a trio almost every weekend, I don't have time to go to jams with my square career and family commitments. Sunday there was a jam one town over from me with 2 people I really like, but I played a farmers market in the morning and didn't want to be gone 8am-8pm on Sunday. The market was about 90 minutes drive each way... pretty far.

[gvurrdon]

Can you structure it so there's a "Vocalist Set" and "Instrumental Set" (or better yet, talk the club into another night for the singers...)

I think the key to dealing with singers is to limit the soloists for their tunes, nobody needs to hear six tenors, four trumpets, guitar piano and bass each take a chorus on "Good Morning Heartache" A good session I frequented in my formative years used to bring each singer up for a mini-set, a medium swing or Bossa, ballad and an up tempo closer, with maybe one chorus of instrumental on the last number, and then the band could get back to "Yes or No" or "One Finger Snap" and everyone was happy

Best wishes for your music!

Thanks!
It worked quite well when we followed a pop original with a vocal jazz standard with just guitar, bass and drums accompanying the singer.
I'd really like to separate the vocal open mic material, as well as the blues etc., but someone would have to organise it and I'd rather it wasn't me.

[gvurrdon]

In the OP's situation, maybe the rule needs to be spoken. But, the owner is trying to sell stuff and probably won't like a rule that drives customers away.

The rules, such as they are, are on the jam's site and get mentioned in the Whatsapp chat, but I don't think people are reading them, or if they are they're not paying attention.
I think the pub owner will be very happy with the crowds brought in by things as they stand, and the inclusivity certainly pleases people.
I'd be a lot happier if I were a horn player or a decent guitarist and could sit out, take a chorus, or go to the bar as I pleased.

[DawgBone]

It's very simple but you have to be willing to be blunt.

"This is a jazz jam and you are selecting pop/soul/blues songs. We aren't doing that"

Problem solved.

[Christian Miller]

It's very simple but you have to be willing to be blunt.

"This is a jazz jam and you are selecting pop/soul/blues songs. We aren't doing that"

Problem solved.

That's the way to do it. Just be nice, honest, straight-up and completely unyielding.

[Christian Miller]

1) Take modern tunes, radio hits, etc. convert them into 'jammable formats' like AABA.

2) Play a pop tune once thru and have an extended ending for solos.

3) Some recent pop tunes have no bridges. Verse Chorus Verse Chorus done. So you could look for those songs and do a quick 20-30 second arrangement with the players about where solos can start/end before counting off.

I would suggest not doing this.

It's great if you've got a working band who are up for it and you can arrange things and so on, but in the context of a jam session it will make everybody unhappy, both the pop singers AND the jazz musicians lol.

[DawgBone]

I would suggest not doing this.

It's great if you've got a working band who are up for it and you can arrange things and so on, but in the context of a jam session it will make everybody unhappy, both the pop singers AND the jazz musicians lol.

IME over the course of many gigs and jams I came to realize that catering only increases the likelihood of them hating you when you finally decide not to, or can no longer, continue catering to them. You acquiesce to one or two requests, now the great disappointment comes when you are unwilling or unable to fulfill other requests. The end result is worse than just saying "I don't play that kind of music" right out of the gate. Lo and behold, that is what appears to have happened to the OP's jam. Now the problem is exacerbated because acquiescing has come to be expected.

[gvurrdon]

That's the way to do it. Just be nice, honest, straight-up and completely unyielding.

That would be my preference, if it was my choice. But, I must abide by the house band consensus.

What I will be doing is inviting a few good horn players and providing them with some hard bop charts, then making sure they get on near the middle of the jam.

[Christian Miller]

That would be my preference, if it was my choice. But, I must abide by the house band consensus.

What I will be doing is inviting a few good horn players and providing them with some hard bop charts, then making sure they get on near the middle of the jam.

Tricky situation then. If it’s a paid gig and the money is good, grin and bear it. If not, and you aren’t having fun, stop doing it.


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[BBGuitar]

Most jams start out good then over time degenerate, until the least skilled are the only ones that show up.

We all have to decide just how many times we want to sit through Wagon Wheel.

[Strat-itis]

^

[AllanAllen]

Most jams start out good then over time degenerate, until the least skilled are the only ones that show up.

We all have to decide just how many times we want to sit through Wagon Wheel.

The look on someone’s face when I say I don’t know Tennessee Whiskey. Then someone in the band pipes up, when they shouldn’t, that we can play some Johnny Cash…. Great, now I’m talking both sides of the room down.

I am a jazz artist, I was hired to play jazz, I know jazz tunes.

If I was OP, I’d quit the group. Life’s too short to play bad gigs. I could be home practicing.