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Today in my quest for a Super 400c I made the trip to CME in Chicago. For me that is about almost 3 hours but the price was good but many questions needed answered. I have written off most all late 60's Gibson due to skinny neck. This acoustic 1969 acoustic 400 was listed at 1 5/8. I went through some measurement with Dave over phone and decided based on the deal it could work ok. At least I would know the score.
I manage to get there ok driving in Chicago is the worst by far. Got to Chicago Music Exchange and decent enough building. Finally got someone to get a hold of Dave to bring me the Super 4. Looking at it was in very nice shape finish had no real issues from me as a looker it was fine. Had a few things done around neck and binding been refretted no nibs. Had flatwound strings on it never would be my choice. I they can at least get idea. My immediate reaction was the neck will not cut it. It simply does not feel flat and good in my hand and yes too narrow. Naturally I can make the guitar work I am player. Action was ok but bottom line is this does not feel great in my hand.
That was the major criteria it had to feel good or no go regardless of price. The sound was ok but clearly nothing special it has a bit on punch but honestly, I am spoiled old guitar player, and this guitar was not a dude but nothing to get winded about. I did ask them to let me play a very nice Gibson L5ces 1996 just to confirm my thoughts on the neck. Bingo, the neck on this was fine and enjoyed playing the guitar. If fact it is great L5ces I recommend it naturally not an acoustic. The guitar told the story in the playing. Basically, I knew I was going home no guitar and frankly that was not unexpected and I learned some things.
The first is the get the guitar you want price is not the only thing as I know. Playing them in person yields big dividends. My visit to see George Gruhn almost year ago was a sharp contrast. Today they hand me the guitar with a noisy shop and gave me all the time I wanted but horrible way to evaluate a guitar. I have enough experience to deal with it but certainly nothing like going to Gruhn's. George hands me the guitars in a quiet setting and nothing to get in the way. A whole different experience. A parking lot for the store and plenty of room. In a nutshell they were just much more present and had a place for that type of guitar.
CME you park on the street and hope for the best. Then the real nightmare begins. I am leaving middle of Chicago Lincoln Park area at beginning of rush hour. I am 140 miles away. It took me over two hours to get about 40-50 miles out of city where I could then drive on interstate. Traffic, roadwork, and city congestion do not sit well with me these days in my older age. It does make me all the more grateful for what I have in guitars and living situation. In less than 1/2 mile I can be on my road bike in the middle of the quite country riding around. I have no idea how folks can live in the city.
So the quest continues today was a lot of work but worth the effort to get an answer with no mistakes to send back.
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05-28-2026 10:19 PM
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Deacon, Congrats for being levelheaded enough to pass on a purchase that probably would not have inspired your playing!
I have long opined that Gibson archtops from the 90's are among the best ever (and I have heard that George Gruhn shares my opinion), so it of no surprise to me that you liked the L-5CES.
I think that a music store that deals in high end guitars is smart to provide a quiet space for a customer to audition the guitar.
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Sorry you went to all that effort to go home empty-handed but I agree 100% with "play hands-on before buying." Surely you went through a lot, but buying sight unseen and sweating through the risks of shipping to/from would have probably been more stressful mentally and emotionally. (Though, Chi-town traffic at rush hour is right up there with a root canal for fun times!)
I'm a bit surprised that CME doesn't have quiet audition rooms. They would be easy to provide. CME has such a stellar rep (and inventory to match) otherwise.
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Yeah, the main floor at CME is a bit mad, but they do have a few small iso rooms. Designed for wailing through amps, but they are OK for checking out acoustic guitars. Their basement, where the basses hide, is pretty quiet and a more natural sounding space - that's the best area for playing an acoustic guitar, IMO.
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Wow, if they actually have quiet places to audition a guitar, sounds like Mark was the victim of a colossal customer service fail.
Originally Posted by Hammertone
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They're just people. Sometimes they do a good job, sometimes not so much. When I visited CME, I got great service from a young salesguy. He's no archtop expert, but took the time to show me a couple of archtops that were not on the floor, including a lovely small-shouldered '30s Super 400. I already have a lovely '37 S-400, so I posted here about the one at CME, and subsequently connected him with one of our members, who bought the guitar. Happy to recommend him:
Ben Brzostowski
<[email protected]>
773.741.4421
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You're a few grand richer and you've got a story and an air guitar that never goes out of tune. That's a win... and now you have a whole lot more possibilities for finding the perfect guitar. I know the northeast is way out of your commute but should you ever plan a trip to NY, do check out Larry Wexer. Most impressive stock, and he's gracious and knowledgeable beyond any expectation. And just across the Hudson is Guitars'n Jazz and another haven for quality archtops and gracious service. Yes the experience is worth the effort.
Good luck in the continuing quest.
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Well, Mark, there's still that '63 @ Mike & Mike's. Why don't you work out a price and return privileges and give that a go?
Phil
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Maybe, today's the day to enjoy the pure pleasure of cycling.
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Next time you go, spend rush hour at Cafe El Tapatio, a great Mexican restaurant that's a short walk away.
Just kidding though, rush hour is like 2pm-8pm. If I'm reading correctly you spent 2 hours on city streets to avoid the Dan Ryan? That's where you went wrong. Chicago ain't Detroit where all the street lights are synchronized to be green if you go the speed limit. In Chicago, I suspect they're synchronized to all be red as you get to them to drive people crazy.
Wish I could bike here like I could in the city, it's all semi trucks doing 70+ in a 55mph zone.
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No interest? Originally Posted by AllanAllen
The Marketplace for Musicians | Reverb.com
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Good on ya for walking when it wasn’t the one. That can be difficult, particularly when you’ve put that much effort into checking it out.
The “one” is just around the corner…
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So a night of rest and some response for the interested. I am no stranger to checking guitars out so had the guitar been ok I would have moved to an acoustic room that CME does have but just handed me the guitar on the main floor. Really that was all I needed because to be honest looking at the guitar it was super shape and nice woods but one touch of the neck and I knew the story. Had it felt ok then I would have ask to move to a quieter room and if necessary, put different strings on it even if I had to pay for them. Most shops are fine with this to tell the truth. I also think Dave knew me enough to realize I did not need any help as such so just let me be in peace. I am conceited enough to think he realized I knew archtops better than he did.
Which brings up another point that I did actually find a bit of concern. He just brought the guitar out to me but not in the case. I did not need to see the case as such, but I am funny person. The guitar was not mine yet and even if it was, I am careful. I want it in my lap playing or if I set it down it goes back in the case. This avoids potential hazards and falls. I see guitars get set out on top of counters and tables with nothing around them and one hit of someone moving an arm and something and it rolls off the counter, and it gets damaged. If I am making comparisons of guitars I either set them back in the case or I will set them on a carpeted floor beside me. Then they cannot fall off anything already on the ground. Why do necks get cracks?
Then when I went to play the 1996 L5ces just to check the neck I had the Super 400 and no good place to set it. I have a bit of a gait issue and sometimes my vestibular system is not perfect. I am clumsy and I don't walk around with guitars holding them in the open. Getting up and moving a guitar I want to put it back in the case to be safe. Frankly they treated me good no real complaints just observations and the price I was going to get it for was great. My comment is the I would pay at least $2000 more had the neck felt like the 96L5.
I can tell anyone here if you are looking for a really nice Gibson L5ces this 1996 is a great guitar. I am right there with SS and Gruhn to say that the late 1990's Gibson's QC was the best. In fact, I think from 1991-2006 some of the best stuff they made was then. My 3 Gibsons come from that era and far exceed most of the other years not counting the acoustic stuff before 1940. Here is the link. This is a real beauty nice, flamed back in light brownish sunburst played great. Gibson Custom L-5 CES Sunburst 1996 | Reverb.
The Chicago traffic has gotten out of hand. Over the past 15 years it has taken exponential traffic jam to basically 24/7. I know the city well and have a map of it in my head but over the years things have made getting around by car like trying to play your guitar in a phone booth. I have drove in all major metro areas, LA, NY, D-FW, Atlanta, and Washington DC. Chicago is still worst place because it has some roads that cut through diagonally that go against the grid. Everyone is blowing in and out of the suburbs commuting for work. To me that would be no life nothing worth that every day. The best way to see the city is completely on foot and I have done that 8 times running the Chicago Marathon.
The search continues.
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CME does have audition rooms. If the store is extremely noisy there might be leakage but they are there. As I remember there are at least three.
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Bay Area traffic today is so bad that I would say that if there is daylight, expect bad traffic. And the Bay Area now extends to the Wine Country and the Monterey Bay. Public transit is a joke, and we pay about $2 more per gallon of gas, just to burn it up sitting in parking lots that were once called freeways. Originally Posted by deacon Mark
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I grew up in Elmhurst so a few miles west, just across the county line into DuPage County. I've lived in Minnesota since 1977 when I came here to go to college. A few years ago my wife and I drove out to upstate New York to attend a wedding and drove through Chicago on the way. I hadn't seen Chicago rush-hour in decades and, shall we say, it hasn't gotten any better. With the huge construction project on the Tri-State tollway and the Eisenhower it was truly horrific. Trying to use my old obsolete knowledge of the Chicago highway system was definitely a mistake! 6 1/2 hours to Chicago and 2 1/2 hours to get from Schaumburg to Indiana. On the way back, I got advice from friends living in Chicago and took the Skyway to the Dan Ryan to the Kennedy IIRC, and got through and out of Chicago in less than half of the time that we had spent on the eastbound leg. I don't know how people stand living there either. Originally Posted by deacon Mark
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hey Mark, Originally Posted by deacon Mark
check the boston area CL. There is a S400 listed.
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I think the exact name of the CL is metro west. Originally Posted by deacon Mark
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Great story! Had it been me I’d have went directly to one of those famed Chicago restaurants and waited out rush hour. I hear Chicago food is world class!
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That’s the price you pay for living in one of the most beautiful cities in the entire world. I grew up 80 miles to the west in SacTown, and thought someday I’d end up there. But instead moved 700 miles to the north. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
BTW, that beautiful ‘96 has apparently sold. Good buy nowadays for $9700.
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That would totally make sense. To drop into Lou Malnoti's Pizza and wipe out the best pizza on earth and a beer. The trouble with this traveling solo is then I have to haul myself back in the car and head south with a clear head. After doing that the only real thing I could get accomplished would be a long nap. They say sleeping in the car is not legal. Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
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Especially while driving! Originally Posted by deacon Mark
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Isn't 80 miles to the West of San Francisco in the Pacific Ocean? Pretty sure Sac is +/- 80 miles North East of SF. Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
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ST, I think 2B was in the Navy?
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We have retired in Chicago because our children and grandchildren are here. It’s home for us… we went to college here in the early 70’s and started our adult journey on the northside. We are city people. There is a secret we’ve discovered along the way. Stay in the city and try to limit your trips to the 9:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. time period. Easy to do when you’re retired.
I have found that people drive better than they did 40-50 years ago, and that, for whatever reason, suburban drivers tend to irritate me more than city drivers.
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