How much music theory do I need before getting into jazz?

[christianm77]

I read a bit from The Jazz Theory Book by Mark Levine. I read that a diminished chord is minor 3rd + minor 3rd and a augmented chord is major 3rd + major 3rd. Is this a A diminished 531xxx? Is this a A augmented 543xxx?

That’s correct but those chords would sound a bit muddy in that register.

[AlexMalmis]

That’s correct but those chords would sound a bit muddy in that register.

Do you usally use higher notes for these chords? Also a inverted chord is a chord where the root is not the lowest note right?

[christianm77]

Do you usally use higher notes for these chords? Also a inverted chord is a chord where the root is not the lowest note right?

Yes to both.

For the aug it’s simple because that chord inverts into itself

I probably use this shape most often

X X 5 4 4 X

So that’s G+

But this chord is a little beyond the scope of the shell voicings we’ve been looking at. In fact I associate this sound with much earlier jazz, from the 20s and 30s. It’s not a sound you hear that much these days.

As for the dim triad that’s actually quite rare in jazz.

Problem with the Levine book is that it’s a Theory book. It doesn’t teach you how to play jazz. A lot of information in it is irrelevant for the starting jazz player.

[AlexMalmis]

Yes to both.

For the aug it’s simple because that chord inverts into itself

I probably use this shape most often

X X 5 4 4 X

So that’s G+

But this chord is a little beyond the scope of the shell voicings we’ve been looking at. In fact I associate this sound with much earlier jazz, from the 20s and 30s. It’s not a sound you hear that much these days.

As for the dim triad that’s actually quite rare in jazz.

Problem with the Levine book is that it’s a Theory book. It doesn’t teach you how to play jazz. A lot of information in it is irrelevant for the starting jazz player.

That is true. Even if you dont often use them in jazz you can use them in other genres so it is good to know them. Is xx544x a augmenentd? So g+ is augmented?

[ragman1]

I read a bit from The Jazz Theory Book by Mark Levine. I read that a diminished chord is minor 3rd + minor 3rd and a augmented chord is major 3rd + major 3rd. Is this a A diminished 531xxx? Is this a A augmented 543xxx?

He's forgotten this one.

Diminished shell voicings are usually played like this:

6th string root - Go - 3x23xx
5th string root - Co - x312xx

Augmented like this:

6th string root - G+ - 321xxx
5th string root - C+ - x321xx

Where are you going with this, Alex? You're 14 and been playing 2 months or so. You have to start from the beginning. Learn some jazz chords and where some notes are on the guitar. There are very good lessons online here. There's a free email book for beginners (see links at the top). We can answer your queries and be happy to do so.

[AlexMalmis]

He's forgotten this one.

Diminished shell voicings are usually played like this:

6th string root - Go - 3x23xx
5th string root - Co - x512xx

Augmented like this:

6th string root - G+ - 321xxx
5th string root - C+ - x321xx

Where are you going with this, Alex? You're 14 and been playing 2 months or so. You have to start from the beginning. Learn some jazz chords and where some notes are on the guitar. There are very good lessons online here. There's a free email book for beginners (see links at the top). We can answer your queries and be happy to do so.

These chords where in my book and these seemed cool. I mean it cant hurt to know them for If I want or Need them sometimes.

[ragman1]

These chords where in my book and these seemed cool. I mean it cant hurt to know them for If I want or Need them sometimes.

You mean the shell chords? Sure, they're useful but they're not complete chords. They're a good way to learn the basic notes, the root, 3rd and 7th.

Look, the Jazz Theory Book is a very advanced book. It's also basically a piano book, not a guitar book. Like I said, you need to start from scratch, properly.

I'm not against theory per se but don't fall into the theory trap. That's where your head is stuffed with all kinds of technicalities but you're not sure how to really play anything. You know, the old players learnt by ear mostly and by actually playing. Did you know Wes Montgomery couldn't read music?

This thread is on page 6 now. Can you play any tunes? Do as I say, look at the lessons on this forum and go from there. Your interest and application is undeniable so don't waste it. Start properly and I'm sure you'll make great progress.

[joe2758]

6th string root - G+ - 321xxx
5th string root - C+ - x321xx

We can answer your queries and be happy to do so.

isn't that what we're doing?

Anyway, I think 3x14xx would be better for 6th string root.

[ragman1]

isn't that what we're doing?

After a fashion.

Anyway, I think 3x14xx would be better for 6th string root.

Hell of a stretch for small fingers. But it is quite a good voicing.

[AlexMalmis]

isn't that what we're doing?

Anyway, I think 3x14xx would be better for 6th string root.

Yeah.

[ragman1]

Alex -

By the way, the fingerboard on the nylon string guitar is quite wide. Your fingers are probably hardened by now so you might find this stuff easier on your electric.

Yeah.

Up to you :-)

[AlexMalmis]

Alex -

By the way, the fingerboard on the nylon string guitar is quite wide. Your fingers are probably hardened by now so you might find this stuff easier on your electric.



Up to you :-)

I play electric guitar..

[ragman1]

I play electric guitar..

Good. But you know on one of those videos you were playing a nylon string. And buzzing. Do you buzz so much playing the electric?

[AlexMalmis]

Good. But you know on one of those videos you were playing a nylon string. And buzzing. Do you buzz so much playing the electric?

No I dont. Also I dont buzz anymore on the nylon. I am used to it now.

[AlexMalmis]

at this time it's really best to get a real-life teacher. forums like this can be fun, but "too many cooks", etc. when in doubt stick with christian, he's a pro teacher.

I should get a teacher. But it Will still be group lessons.

[joe2758]

christian does skype lessons. that's what I would do.

[AlexMalmis]

christian does skype lessons. that's what I would do.

Sorry I dont have money for that.. I litteralt have 0dollars after buying my guitar and amp and some jazz iii picks.

[AlexMalmis]

group lessons are fine. you'll meet other aspiring players. i think there are quite a few possibilities in your town. try and listen to live music. i have many students your age and often the parents are quite supportive, too. or the grandparents. i'm sure they would support lessons at the music school. or take you to a concert once in a while. you can always show them this thread to see how serious you are

Yeah they would pay for lessons they have Said that. Concerts I am not sure about I also dont know what concert I would go to. But I think I wanna go on the big band festival in Västerås.

[AlexMalmis]

first note of happy birthday: G
chords needed: C F G.

these are called I IV and V in C-maj. can you figure out why they are called I IV and V? can you name I IV and V in the key of G?

I IV and V are the most important chords in the key. that rock tune i posted earlier also needs I IV and V in the key of Bb.

don't read theory books until you understand and can apply this.

I means the first chord in the key, IV is the fourth chord and V is the fifth chord. In the key of G I think it is GCD.

[AlexMalmis]

Also a small i is minor and a big I is major.

[AlexMalmis]

For example in the key of Bb ii V I is C minor, F major and Bb major. Maybe not true but I am pretty sure.

[AlexMalmis]

yeah. now you need to *hear* that theoretical explanation. the knowledge alone is useless if you cant apply it to happy birthday

I Will play it when I get home.

[AlexMalmis]

while the F chord is a major chord, it has a natural 7. so to avoid confusion call it F7

Ohh okay.

[AlexMalmis]

good. also make hard-rock versions with powerchords in several keys. good for learning the fretboard.

Okay. So if I wanna play CGF power chords I play 35xxxx, 13xxxx and x35xxx?

[ragman1]

I would definitely say live lessons too but you said there weren't any!