Do you need theory?

[John A.]

"Where I think people get into trouble is in thinking of theory as something to learn before you actually start playing jazz (or any other music). It's not, and if you just focus on theory and don't play much, you're not playing much, which strike me as a bass ackward way to go about playing music."

I think this sums up my points pretty much, with the addition that it isn't a rare occurance

It's certainly common in online discussion, but I haven't run into the phenomenon much IRL (not surprising, since people cloistering themselves with theory obsessions are probably not out and about a whole lot).

[Christian Miller]

You play the gig and you talk about what you watched on TV last night or whatever.


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[AllanAllen]

You play the gig and you talk about what you watched on TV last night or whatever.


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This one guy is my preferred sub because he always wants to stand outside the gig for an hour and talk about what he’s working on.

It makes me feel like I have a friend

[Mick-7]

This seems like an interesting idea. "Washing Dishes by Hand" Step By Step guide. (scientifically researched).

How to Wash Dishes by Hand - Link

Very Incomplete - they didn't cover how to avoid dishpan hands, and drying the dishes and stacking them in the cupboard. My, how the standards of scientific research have declined!

[Litterick]

In the real world, all musicians use and need some degree of some kind of music theory, unless they're doing something truly outsider, independent, and unique. Otherwise, music can't be repeated or conveyed to other musicians without some sort of organization and communication system. Some people have idiosyncratic terminology, or don't use a written system, or maybe don't think of how they talk about music as theory, but if you can tell somebody what you're doing and/or teach them how to do it, you have theory. Beyond that relatively basic level, if you want to play music that sounds like jazz created from ca. late 1950s to the present it certainly helps to explore harmonic and scale concepts that the creators of modern jazz use.

The secret is out: the purpose of jazz theory is to help musicians sound like their predecessors.

[AllanAllen]

The secret is out: the purpose of jazz theory is to help musicians sound like their predecessors.

I thought the purpose was to sound smart on forums.

[Christian Miller]

The secret is out: the purpose of jazz theory is to help musicians sound like their predecessors.

I don’t think that’s the purpose of it at all.

That’s the marketing!


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[joe2758]

I sound more like my predecessors when I barely think about it!

[rpjazzguitar]

In what must be thousands of hours of playing in groups, I can't recall a single in depth theory discussion.

The closest I can think of is a situation in which we're playing a new tune with some unusual harmony or a weird chord spelling. Then the pianist, and it always seems to be the pianist (different ones), might name a scale that will work. That happens occasionally.

Most of the conversations are about whatever people talk about, with the exception of a lot of talk about gigs and who was on them.

[Strat-itis]

This one guy is my preferred sub because he always wants to stand outside the gig for an hour and talk about what he’s working on.

It makes me feel like I have a friend

I feel that.

[wolflen]

I remember one time I was washing dishes in the sink and I had one sink with soapy water, and the other with plain water for rinsing...which I think is just standard?
My wife was like "that is so smart!" lol

She did them without plugging the sink one pan at a time

OK..did she know the "theory" of washing dishes..like the modes of washing and rinsing..the Grime Scales and the Diminished Grease??

[mr. beaumont]

I feel that.

I usually just want to talk basketball or recipes.

[joe2758]

Here's some guy who describes my perspective far better than I have been doing. Especially the part about studying lines before moving onto theory and line construction. My favorite part is the example/impression of someone who may learn scales and theory before having absorbed some language (which WAS exactly me).

[pamosmusic]

Here's some guy who describes my perspective far better than I have been doing. Especially the part about studying lines before moving onto theory and line construction. My favorite part is the example/impression of someone who may learn scales and theory before having absorbed some language (which WAS exactly me).

hack

[Christian Miller]

hack

How rude.

Show some respect and call me a hack fraud.


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[joe2758]

How rude.

Show some respect and call me a hack fraud.


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you're worse. You're a youtuber.

[Strat-itis]

I thought it was a really accurate video. I thought the stages were all accurate, I thought the guidance within each stage was accurate, and I thought the overall parameter was accurate that you should try to sound attractive at each stage.

I agree that at the minimum when beginning the student should learn vocab in parallel with theory. This improves literacy, ear, technique, and theory all at once. And it probably wouldn't hurt to start with vocab only. Unfortunately, those of us who learned theory first can't go back in time, and instead have to just work on our weaknesses from here.

[John A.]

The secret is out: the purpose of jazz theory is to help musicians sound like their predecessors.

Depends on how old you are. As someone who was alive and aware while, e.g., Miles Davis, Bill Evans, Joe Henderson, Michael Brecker, and Pat Martino were active, learning some of what they learned is not an exercise in archaeology.

[joe2758]

Unfortunately, those of us who learned theory first can't go back in time, and instead have to just work on our weaknesses from here.

And, if I'm honest, all that technical and theoretical stuff wasn't a WASTE for sure. I can learn and memorize phrases really fast, they stick better, I understand the sounds, I can put them in organized buckets, I hear them very clearly in my head etc...

It's just the idea that reverse order would have probably served better

[Strat-itis]

^ Yeah. If there are 2 things I've learned from this forum, they are:

1. Post up.
2. Learn to play the music as it actually sounds, don't wank scales.

[joe2758]

what do you mean by post up

[pamosmusic]

what do you mean by post up

lock in.

cook, son. cook.

[joe2758]

lock in.

cook, son. cook.

you're the worst

[pamosmusic]

you're the worst

yes

[mr. beaumont]

what do you mean by post up

Work on your moves that start with your back to the hoop.

Try fake baseline, quick crossover, spin and baby hook.