Cmaj7 to C#dim7th

[pamosmusic]

Ok sorry , misread you Peter
thankyou for clarifying that

We just have a tendency to say Oh this is a tension chord going to Gm, so I must make it a sub for D7, when the reality is that there are loads of cool chords that can get us there

[pingu]

We just have a tendency to say Oh this is a tension chord going to Gm, so I must make it a sub for D7, when the reality is that there are loads of cool chords that can get us there

Yes I was taught to think that way ….
I should think more about the
voice leading i guess ….

[Mick-7]

Yes I was taught to think that way ….
I should think more about the voice leading i guess ….

But now Peter is obligated to list the "loads of cool chords" we can use.

[pamosmusic]

But now Peter is obligated to list the "loads of cool chords" we can use.

I don’t know man —

Things you’ll see in a bunch of standards …

G7 with any number of extensions, Gmaj7 or maj6, Abdim7, Ab7, Abmaj7, Adim7, Bbm7, Bbmaj7, C7, C#m7, D7 of all sorts, Dm7, Eb7, Ebdim7, Em7b5, F7, Fmaj7, F#7, F#m7 F#dim7,

Probably others.

So many things — check out Footprints, Witch-hunt, and Speak No Evil. All sorts of shenanigans in those.

[ragman1]

You people know nothing.

[pamosmusic]

You people know nothing.

I look forward to hearing what you think you've proven.

Do go on, dear ragman.

[Mick-7]

But now Peter is obligated to list the "loads of cool chords" we can use.

G7 with any number of extensions, Gmaj7 or maj6, Abdim7, Ab7, Abmaj7, Adim7, Bbm7, Bbmaj7, C7, C#m7, D7 of all sorts, Dm7, Eb7, Ebdim7, Em7b5, F7, Fmaj7, F#7, F#m7 F#dim7

I didn't really expect you to answer that question but that is some list!

[PMB]

Moving swiftly on ….

Any one got some good ideas
for bar 6 of Bye Bye Blackbird
in F

over the Abo
seems to require a different approach
maybe ? more old school maybe ?

The 'old school approach' would be exactly as I suggested for The Song Is You.

F6 = Dm7, Abo7 = G7b9 (no root). So:

Dm7 / / / | G7 / / / | G-7 / / / | C7 / / / |

Once again, this is a basic harmonic move with a number of possible scalar choices.

[ragman1]

I look forward to hearing what you think you've proven.

Do go on, dear ragman.

It's dead simple. This whole thread is to discuss what to do with a biiio chord. The issue has been turned inside out and there's pingu, who's not a bad person, still mooching about looking lost. He asks for answers, already beaten to death, and then argues with the answers.

Why, instead of asking others, doesn't he do his own research? It's in a hundred sites, the whole 'diminished harmony' issue is very, very clear. All you have to do is look it up. The virtues of the W/H dim scale have been made abundantly clear, not that there aren't other options.

But here we are on page 6 of this thread still going round in circles. The reason I'm talking about pingu rather than addressing him directly is because my posts are ignored. But he's the one with the problem, not me.

It's also interesting, if that's the word, that the OP has deserted the thread he started. All these good people trying to answer his question and he walks off without a word. And he's supposed to be a priest or something and have some manners. He's not dead, by the way, he's posting on other threads.

What am I trying to prove with the clip? No idea, it just seemed a good idea at the time. Mind you, it does use the Abo which is covered in various ways but that wasn't really the point.

[pamosmusic]

The reason I'm talking about pingu rather than addressing him directly is because my posts are ignored. But he's the one with the problem, not me.

Oh, okay.

Noted, I guess.

[pingu]

there’s no problem Ragman

I just like to chat with folks here
about this n that , if you don’t wanna
thats ok

Bye Bye Blackbird ….

[ragman1]

I just like to chat with folks here
about this n that

You haven't been 'chatting', you've been making serious music comments and receiving serious theoretical answers.

if you don’t wanna
thats ok

Does it sound like I don't want to?

In any case, your question's been answered. So now play something and let's see how you handle that Abo or its Am7b5/D7b9 sub. That's the sub they all use. Try this, not a diminished chord in sight.

[pamosmusic]

The whole "throwing down the gauntlet" vibe is a little much.

[ragman1]

Oh, he doesn't have to show it to anyone. I suppose he could tell us which ideas worked or not.

But, I forgot, he's only 'chatting' so we can kiss that idea goodbye!

Grrr

[jameslovestal]

The whole "throwing down the gauntlet" vibe is a little much.

More like par for the course! But I do admit I have learned a thing or two as it relates to this chord progression and thus, I thank all for that.

[pingu]

Oh, he doesn't have to show it to anyone. I suppose he could tell us which ideas worked or not.

But, I forgot, he's only 'chatting' so we can kiss that idea goodbye!

Grrr

I’ve literally been doing that
as we’ve been chatting

I’ve come to realise that
You and I just see/hear things completely
differently Ragman

Which is fine , it’s not a problem

[ragman1]

I’ve literally been doing that
as we’ve been chatting

Excellent. With what results? Have you solved your problem?

I’ve come to realise that
You and I just see/hear things completely
differently Ragman

But that thought's not recent. You said more or less the same thing earlier in the thread in post #43:

I think we all hear this diminished stuff differently Rag !

I assure you I hear just the same as anybody else. I don't confuse La Marseillaise with The Star-Spangled Banner!

---------------------------

Let's stick to one tune or it'll become complicated. It's all the same idea anyway, which is what to do with the biii dim chord. Let's use Blackbird because that seems to be the tune of the moment.

In this tune we have

F/A - Abo - Gm7 - C7

Which is exactly the same as the other tunes we've been talking about, only they are in different keys. So, if I may ask you, what have you found in your playing? Have you settled on one particular answer or are you trying to decide between various things?

Or to put it quickly, what is working best for you over that chord?

[pingu]

Excellent. With what results? Have you solved your problem?



But that thought's not recent. You said more or less the same thing earlier in the thread in post #43:



I assure you I hear just the same as anybody else. I don't confuse La Marseillaise with The Star-Spangled Banner!

---------------------------

Let's stick to one tune or it'll become complicated. It's all the same idea anyway, which is what to do with the biii dim chord. Let's use Blackbird because that seems to be the tune of the moment.

In this tune we have

F/A - Abo - Gm7 - C7

Which is exactly the same as the other tunes we've been talking about, only they are in different keys. So, if I may ask you, what have you found in your playing? Have you settled on one particular answer or are you trying to decide between various things?

Or to put it quickly, what is working best for you over that chord?

I find I like a straight Abo arp best
which is a bit boring I guess

or an A7b9b13 gypsy scale
G Ab B C D Eb F G

my taste seems a bit fluid tho ….

[ragman1]

Thanks for the reply. I use the Ab dim arp too, it fits fine. I don't use the other one because I'm not convinced of the harmonic minor sound over a passing dim chord because it doesn't resolve melodically.

If the next chord was Cm that would fit but it's Gm in the key of F. That's not just a theory answer, there really is a sound difference. Although Panos might not agree with that. Maybe not Miller either.

Apart from that...

[Christian Miller]

Thanks for the reply. I use the Ab dim arp too, it fits fine. I don't use the other one because I'm not convinced of the harmonic minor sound over a passing dim chord because it doesn't resolve melodically.

If the next chord was Cm that would fit but it's Gm in the key of F. That's not just a theory answer, there really is a sound difference. Although Panos might not agree with that. Maybe not Miller either.

Apart from that...

I bet when Peter chose his perfectly explicable username he never imagined how badly and in how many unique and special ways we’d somehow manage to mangle it.

And yet, at least I haven’t called him anything as bad as Groinaid. Yet.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pamosmusic]

Thanks for the reply. I use the Ab dim arp too, it fits fine. I don't use the other one because I'm not convinced of the harmonic minor sound over a passing dim chord because it doesn't resolve melodically.

If the next chord was Cm that would fit but it's Gm in the key of F. That's not just a theory answer, there really is a sound difference. Although Panos might not agree with that. Maybe not Miller either.

Apart from that...

Why does it not resolve to melodically to Gm?

G is a common tone. Ab to G. B to Bb. C to Bb or D. D is a common tone. Eb to D. F is a common tone.

Seems fine?

[pamosmusic]

I bet when Peter chose his perfectly explicable username he never imagined how badly and in how many unique and special ways we’d somehow manage to mangle it.

And yet, at least I haven’t called him anything as bad as Groiniad

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah who knew.

Panasonic is still my favorite.

[pingu]

I find I like a straight Abo arp best
which is a bit boring I guess

or an A7b9b13 gypsy scale
G Ab B C D Eb F G

my taste seems a bit fluid tho ….

ooops
I should have said G7b9b13 Gypsy
sorry everyone

[ragman1]

G7b9b13

G13b9

In that case use F melodic minor (b13 not necessary, key of F)

F E D C Bb Ab G F

Ab - b9
E - 13

Danger! You'll be hearing it differently soon, like me :-)

[Christian Miller]

Best scale on G13b9 is F melodic minor

Fight me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk