Experiment

[CliffR]

I'd say Amin7 is a D7 idea.
I also didn't mean bar I. But pickup to bar 1.

Interesting - I'd interpreted that as an arpeggio of the 3rd of F7, but perhaps this ambiguity is part of the experiment?

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

I'd say Amin7 is a D7 idea.
I also didn't mean bar I. But pickup to bar 1.

Could also be a C13.

[Tal_175]

Sure, but the orthodox BH think there is F7 to the third of D, meaning F7 over the D7, not vice versa. It’s in that same diminished family so maybe, but I’d wager our man is thinking “Blues for Alice” … et voila

Yes, they are all interchangeable due to belonging to the same diminished family.
I think we are both saying the same thing. I would view it bar 7,8,9,10 as
D7 - Db7 - C7- C7 in terms of line building from the BH point of view. You can also view them as Amin7- Abmin7- Gmin7 if your approach is minorization.

[Tal_175]

Interesting - I'd interpreted that as an arpeggio of the 3rd of F7, but perhaps this ambiguity is part of the experiment?

Arpeggio from the 3rd would have an Eb.

[pamosmusic]

<irony> Christian Miller is theory and improvises over an F blues by playing intervals, arps and scales AND THAT IS THE FCKING TRUTH, you ******* mofos!!! </irony>

EDIT: My buddy (the bot) says the same thing BTW.

Hi yeah let’s agree not to use this word even if we’re ridiculing someone who uses it as an insult.

Better we just scrap the word altogether.

K thx bye

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

This is what it sounds like.

Are you a buddy of the bot as well?

[Tal_175]

Could also be a C13.

It ends on a B natural which lasts for a beat.

[pamosmusic]

Yes, they are all interchangeable due to belonging to the same diminished family.
I think we are both saying the same thing. I would view it bar 7,8,9,10 as
D7 - Db7 - C7- C7 in terms of line building from the BH point of view. You can also view them as Amin7- Abmin7- Gmin7 if your approach is minorization.

Well yeah this is the crux of the discussion right … the end product is the same, even if the process is different.

In this case and this situation, those bars lend themselves to chunking. It’s like Barry’s bvi over the dominant. Theory could make it work, but he usually does it as part of a bigger move as in Cm Dbm Dm to outline the V - I in Bb.

Your math is right, but if we’re trying to get inside Christians head, I bet he’s chunking it. That middle four bars of the blues more than anything else gives you sooooo many set piece options to get from one spot to the other.

[Bobby Timmons]

Are you a buddy of the bot as well?

Ur mad.

[Bobby Timmons]

Did Christian want everyone to speculate on every exact device?

[pamosmusic]

Did Christian want everyone to speculate on every exact device?

Hes absolutely loving this.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

Hi yeah let’s agree not to use this word even if we’re ridiculing someone who uses it as an insult.

Better we just scrap the word altogether.

K thx bye

I have worked with people with severe physical and mental handicaps and I was not aware that this R-word is offensive in English. I always found it strange that in German the euphemisms for what an American would probably (also euphemistically IMO) call politically correctly "mentally challenged" are "entwicklungsverzögert" (adjective for a "person with a development delay") or "lernverzögert" (adjective for a "person with delayed learning abilities").

Interesting how the noun "Entwicklungsverzögerung" is sometimes translated into English:

https://www.linguee.com/german-engli...%B6gerung.html

But I accept your request.

[Bobby Timmons]

My younger brother is re. And of his own doing. Used too many drugs and became mentally ill. Although some of it is genetic as you guys can tell. We have mental illness on both sides of the family.

[RJVB]

Hes absolutely loving this.

And yet he blames me for being unclear in what I'm getting at


I'm waiting for exactly that from him (while being reminded of my long-ago colleague Lars's "here's another sheet with nice equations" presentations )

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

My younger brother is re. And of his own doing. Used too many drugs and became mentally ill. Although some of it is genetic as you guys can tell. We have mental illness on both sides of the family.

I was rather talking about kids who had their "challenges" from birth on. Genetically, like Down syndrome or something went wrong with the oxygen supply during birth.

I used to care for a care-intensive guy once a week so his mother could have an afternoon free. He had severe mental handicaps, was an epileptic (fortunately good meds so I never witnessed a seizure), being a spastic he could hardly walk and sat in a wheel chair. And he was blind. He only could speak a few words but he loved music. We most of the time took the streetcar to the pedestrian zone in the city and listened to buskers. And I will never forget how when I showed him a recording of Mozart's Requiem played by the Munich Philharmonic under Celibidache he sat there the whole time listening carefully with his head tilted a little bit to the right.

And later for one year I accompanied kids with multiple "special needs" (another euphemism IMO) to school daily as their assistant.

EDIT: I learned a lot from working with toddlers and "people with special needs" about listening and reacting to music in a very direct emotional way without all the intellectual and ideological freight we "grownup", "normal" people carry with us. It helped me become a better musician.

[GuyBoden]

Christian -

It's too easy to tear things apart after a solo. However, since you ask, I've zero objection to the nat E over the F7. In fact I like it, it's a reminder that probably blues was 3 major chords in any case. After that everything's fine.

The question is whether the out over F7 in bar 7 isn't overkill since we have tension in bar 8 as well.

I think bar 8 needed a Bb, not a B. I think you were probably trying to do D alt. I changed it on the midi below (not the already posted one, that's yours) and it sounds better. What's more, it makes the out in bar 7 sound right now.

And the end is obviously fine too.

See what you think.

Maybe it could be improved with a better quality midi piano VST.

There are free VST midi piano:
5 Best Piano VSTs 2024 | Equipboard

[Tal_175]

My comment about the nat7 over dominant was tongue in cheek by the way. It has been played before even though that note is the reason why the altered scale exists.

[dconeill]

He's thinking of the girl he desired in high school and never managed to get next to.

Oh, wait, that's me (the thinker, not the girl). Never mind.

It's stuff like this that illustrates to me how much I have yet to learn.

[Christian Miller]

I know, I know! Like me, Christian, your thoughts were still so focussed on the final season of Battlestar Galactica - just what is the nature of Starbuck!? - that the notes just flowed out without the intervention of conscious thought?

I think the plotting of season 4 of BSG was pretty much free jazz. And I love it.


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[Christian Miller]

The notation has either not the correct key signature or you might think Lydian.

The solo transcription observes the common jazz practice of using a null key signature (as in the Omnibook)


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[supersoul]

I don't think of myself as a "theory" person, but here's my half-baked interpretation. You're doing that trick of substituting a minor/blues scale tonality off of the 3rd of a dominant chord. So the Am for F7. Later you do a Dm blues on the Bb7. Then, starting on measure 7 you are just decending chromatically with minor tonalities to get to the Gm/C7 V chord at measure 9/10. Like Peter said, Blues for Alice stylings.

I mean, I'm not sure what you're thinking. I like the major 7th over the dominant sound. Sometimes they're leading notes, but other times they are harmonic tones. I can't explain how they work, but I've noticed George Benson sometimes does them. That's the part that I'd first steal from this.

[dasein]

Pickup bar - Am7 with an approach from below. E natural is totally fine, you don't even need to go to "Blues for Alice" for a model. If memory serves, Charlie Parker played an Amin triad in his first chorus in "Billie's Bounce." I don't think he always thought of it as F7 -- I think he thought of it as Fmaj (just a triad, no 7th) for the most part, and a dom7 when it goes to the IV.

Bar 1 - F triad with enclosures.

Bar 2 - Bb7, but you both extend the F in bar 1 and anticipate the F in bar 3. Helps it sound less square.

Bar 3 - This is a classic lick, but it also lands you nicely on an Eb triad -- very typical sub for both Cm7 and F7

Bar 4 - Eb, chromatic approach to Dm7 -- m7 third below the dominant very common sub, not only did Charlie Parker play it a lot, but I think it was the first thing that Benson played on his own version of "Billie's Bounce"

Bar 5 - Bb with enclosures, walk down to the 5th of Bb

Bar 6 - Bb, with more enclosures

Bar 7 - Another Am7 over F7

Bar 8 - Abm7 -- there are many ways you can think of this, but I suspect you're just thinking it as moving chromatically from Am7 to Gm7. This is the sort of thing that Wes loved to play a lot. In fact, without having any audio or video, I suspect you played these bars (7 - 9) using the classic Wes m7 arpeggio fingering.

Bar 9 - Gm7, then going down the scale

Bar 10 - continue down the scale, dim7 on the b9 (or third, or fifth, or b7, or however you think of it)

Bar 11 - little F fragment, ending on an offbeat

There are multiple ways you can think of this language, it'll come down to personal idiosyncrasies.

[Christian Miller]

Point of info - harmonically the tied up beat belongs to the following bar in jazz. I’m not saying this has anything to do with my mental process. It’s just a thing that you often encounter - pushed chords in arrangements etc. So you would tend to hear that E on the “4 and” in bar 1 as belonging to the bar 2, same with the A in bar 2

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[Christian Miller]

Pickup bar - Am7 with an approach from below. E natural is totally fine, you don't even need to go to "Blues for Alice" for a model. If memory serves, Charlie Parker played an Amin triad in his first chorus in "Billie's Bounce." I don't think he always thought of it as F7 -- I think he thought of it as Fmaj (just a triad, no 7th) for the most part, and a dom7 when it goes to the IV.

:-)


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[Christian Miller]

I’ll post tomorrow.

Thanks for indulging me!


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