June 2026 - C Jam Blues

[ragman1]

Nice !
A simple, honest and understandable version.
Playing an acoustic guitar with your thumb is a challenge.

My thumb ought to get a blister but it doesn't. It's a mystery.

My recording system doesn't like sound of that middle G, does it? I don't know why.

[Christian Miller]

Ok, I hear that. I'll endeavour to be more consistent in the future, at least in this sort of context. I'm not sure what kind of musical culture I come from...

The same as mine. Downbeat centric.

People who come from places like Brazil, Cuba etc don't struggle so much with this stuff, because they are exposed to music that has loads of structural upbeats from an early age.

Luckily the issues that people have are fairly common and consistent, and there's clear ways of improving these aspects.

[Strat-itis]

^ What are your thoughts to getting the rhythm feel right of having the rhythm correct vs the inflection? As an example, with the C jam blues melody I more think inflection to get it right, even though it's a matter of both.

[brent.h]

I enjoyed that from start to finish holy moly.

[Strat-itis]

I enjoyed that from start to finish holy moly.

Thank you sir! I try!

[Christian Miller]

^ What are your thoughts to getting the rhythm feel right of having the rhythm correct vs the inflection? As an example, with the C jam blues melody I more think inflection to get it right, even though it's a matter of both.

I mean, how long have you got? But yes, it needs to be both.

So an obvious thing is - do you separate rhythm and inflection? How helpful are concepts like upbeat and downbeat?

In Western music jazz players are use to seeing a rhythm on the age and then interpreting it by adding swing and correct articulation. (In the same way classical musicians add rubato to their performances, rather than always play literally what is on the page.)

But. if you go and study West African music, there's none of this. They just teach you the rhythms all at once. No breaking it down or counting things out. A holistic approach. And that's powerful too.

In jazz we might learn that way if our approach is primarily aural, and we are learning things off records without too much thought as to how much we write them down. So we learn the whole thing in one go, which is a powerful thing about transcription - it's a very complete practice activity. In terms of internalising rhythm, scatting is a useful tool for learning that. ("Bah-da Bah-da Baaah-da!")

Many jazz guitar students really struggle with scatting idiomatic and compelling rhythms. One thing that people need to do to get better at this IME is to sing things off records. Riffs, licks, melodies. Doesn't matter if they are out of tune, just get the rhythm. That's something that can't be done by breaking things down.

That said, I think Western notation and other mathematical approaches to rhythm (such as Carnatic) are quite useful. We can't always get everything by ear. Breaking things down and doing mechanical stuff can be really helpful for this even though the aim is certainly not to play like a robot.

Furthermore, our sense of rhythm is already conditioned by them, and there's certain subtleties that ones might not pick up on right away. Take the bar line for instance. Most phrases even in European music go through the barline and need to be played in what Hal Galper termed 'forward motion'. But teaching kids to play phrases through the bar line is hard, because that line creates a psychological barrier.

In terms of African Diaspora rhythm those of us who have haven't grown up in one of those cultures (NOLA, Brazilian, Cuban etc) have got certain blindspots and the classic area for this is in the upbeats. That is something that can be discussed in notational Western terms, even if the sounding nature of the swing upbeat for instance is actually totally different to how it looks on the page. OTOH there's obviously stuff that can't be written down at all.

[ragman1]

^ What are your thoughts to getting the rhythm feel right of having the rhythm correct vs the inflection? As an example, with the C jam blues melody I more think inflection to get it right, even though it's a matter of both.

I bet Duke Ellington never asked that question in his life.

[Strat-itis]

Strat-itis,
What do you think about playing this young person?

It's very good because it's melodically sustained the entire time. Like a great's solo would be. Possibly precomposed but that's ok. The only thing is it's not really at a suitable rhythmic excitement level yet but that will come.

I bet Duke Ellington never asked that question in his life.

I bet he did. Top musicians are very disciplined and methodical about their music, that's why they're at the top.

[Strat-itis]

I mean, how long have you got? But yes, it needs to be both.

So an obvious thing is - do you separate rhythm and inflection? How helpful are concepts like upbeat and downbeat?

In Western music jazz players are use to seeing a rhythm on the age and then interpreting it by adding swing and correct articulation. (In the same way classical musicians add rubato to their performances, rather than always play literally what is on the page.)

But. if you go and study West African music, there's none of this. They just teach you the rhythms all at once. No breaking it down or counting things out. A holistic approach. And that's powerful too.

In jazz we might learn that way if our approach is primarily aural, and we are learning things off records without too much thought as to how much we write them down. So we learn the whole thing in one go, which is a powerful thing about transcription - it's a very complete practice activity. In terms of internalising rhythm, scatting is a useful tool for learning that. ("Bah-da Bah-da Baaah-da!")

Many jazz guitar students really struggle with scatting idiomatic and compelling rhythms. One thing that people need to do to get better at this IME is to sing things off records. Riffs, licks, melodies. Doesn't matter if they are out of tune, just get the rhythm. That's something that can't be done by breaking things down.

That said, I think Western notation and other mathematical approaches to rhythm (such as Carnatic) are quite useful. We can't always get everything by ear. Breaking things down and doing mechanical stuff can be really helpful for this even though the aim is certainly not to play like a robot.

Furthermore, our sense of rhythm is already conditioned by them, and there's certain subtleties that ones might not pick up on right away. Take the bar line for instance. Most phrases even in European music go through the barline and need to be played in what Hal Galper termed 'forward motion'. But teaching kids to play phrases through the bar line is hard, because that line creates a psychological barrier.

In terms of African Diaspora rhythm those of us who have haven't grown up in one of those cultures (NOLA, Brazilian, Cuban etc) have got certain blindspots and the classic area for this is in the upbeats. That is something that can be discussed in notational Western terms, even if the sounding nature of the swing upbeat for instance is actually totally different to how it looks on the page. OTOH there's obviously stuff that can't be written down at all.

Thanks. Well that's good that I actually seem to be on the same page with those ideas. Visualizing upbeat and downbeat, trying to intuitively get the rhythms, breaking things down if necessary, trying to sing along or specifically track rhythms.

[ragman1]

Well, here's a little something. Despite its title it's not supposed to help people with C Jam Blues. I've done my bit anyway. I just thought it was a fun title.

But it is a blues in C.

[ragman1]

It's the Omen. You see that white line? The kid's had it. Good bass player, though.

(edit)

Aw, he's taken the photo down. He's scared it's really going to happen!

[djg]

I enjoyed that from start to finish holy moly.

it's midi

[brent.h]

it's midi

huh? the midi is just the drum and bass right?

everything else was played.

[djg]

huh? the midi is just the drum and bass right?

everything else was played.

if you say so

[Strat-itis]

it's midi

huh? the midi is just the drum and bass right? everything else was played.

Yes, thanks Brent.

Drums and bass are midi, piano and vibraphone are acoustic track at once of me.

Drums are just cut and paste. Bass I play in on a midi keyz controller then doctor for the backing track. I quantize the bass line, then the intro solo I played in at 130 then raised it to the tune tempo of 165. Bass was my 1st instrument but I had to stop because of a finger injury. It's fun to still do a little even if it's midi that gets doctored.

[djg]

Yes, thanks Brent.

Drums and bass are midi, piano and vibraphone are acoustic track at once of me.

if that is the case you have the most machine-like triplets i've ever heard

[Strat-itis]

Haha oh man. My vibraphone technique has a mind its own as technique is the hardest for me.

[ragman1]

Well, I don't know what's happened to this. Everybody's gone off to do it in some other style.

There's one other thing I could do. The very first version I did at the beginning everyone disapproved of because, I presume, I'd speeded it up. You're such snobs!

So here's the original. Nothing weird about it, just swing-style stuff and it's five minutes long. I've replaced the middle G opening, which sounded dull, with the final high version.

[Strat-itis]

Sounds improved because the solo is conjunct.

[ragman1]

Well, now you have it fully au naturel :-)

[ragman1]

Oh, one more thing. If you know it's speeded up and the solo sounds non-conjunct, why is that a problem?

[Strat-itis]

I meant it sounds improved from your previous recordings.

[ragman1]

Bed-time for you, my boy.

Never say I do nothing for you. This'll put you to sleep :-)

[charlieparker]

You're not entitled to pose yourself as my teacher in the first place. I have a teacher, and he's a lot better than you. I'm usually fine with unsolicited advice. This is a new level. Inventing bs that isn't there to invalidate the music. If this is your angle to offering advice then it's not welcome from me and I don't want your input.

I'd ignore Ragman. I think he is a troll. He has his own style of playing that one can respect but an overly inflated view of his insight into music.

[ragman1]

an overly inflated view of his insight into music.

Oh, my lord! Welcome to music from the mental ward again. Well, done, genius. Your Strat-itis quote comes all the way from page 1 and was a reply to someone else, not me.

I actually don't have any great views or insights into music as it happens, I leave the academics to others. I'm more of a 'like it or don't like it' person. Life's a lot easier that way.