Don Cherry on Lennie Tristano

[charlieparker]

We’ve kind of hashed all this out earlier in the thread.

But an additional thought:

People who think we shouldn’t be paying attention to the role of race in the history of the music usually present that as an alternative to an unseemly obsession with race, or “moral outrage,” or “tiresome moral indignation.” In reality, though, they’re not a counterpoint at all. They’re essentially a mirror image of the attitude with which they’re frustrated.

People who think “focusing on race” distracts from the music should ask themselves why they’re distracted. If they don’t think it’s salient anymore, then why aren’t they able to think about it and enjoy the artistic product at the same time?

For the sake of argument, let’s say Tristano had some problematic racial politics (and I’m not saying he did for this purpose). Would that make his music less listenable?

I don’t think so. Ive listen to the Tristano school plenty and enjoyed it. We get to draw our own lines. If you’re drawing a line on the side of ignoring it so you can enjoy the music, then you might ask yourself if why that is, or if you’re all that different from the people you find obnoxious.

Also, to answer your second question. I think it would impact my enjoyment of Tristano's music if I knew he was racist.

[Litterick]

"The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there."
L.P. Hartley

[pamosmusic]

Also, to answer your second question. I think it would impact my enjoyment of Tristano's music if I knew he was racist.

Well that’s interesting.

See, to me that is ends up being the problem a lot of the time. We end up making distinctions like “myopic and insensitive” because we want to continue enjoying the music. I’m not terribly interested in the difference between prejudice and myopia, in part because I’m not sure there’s a helpful one to make, but also because I don’t really think people get to control how their art is perceived after it’s made. I can do what I like with it, which is to say, enjoy it without celebrating the creator.

Enjoy what you like. Sometimes bad people make good art, and good people make bad art. Call it what it is and do your thing.

[princeplanet]

Also, to answer your second question. I think it would impact my enjoyment of Tristano's music if I knew he was racist.

Did Miles' racism impact your enjoyment of listening to his music?

[princeplanet]

.... Call a spade a spade and do your thing.

Hmm, perhaps an unfortunate choice of words under the circumstances..?

[charlieparker]

Did Miles' racism impact your enjoyment of listening to his music?

No, because I think it was reasonable for Miles to harbor some racial animus given the time he lived in and I am not really that familiar with the extent of his racism. He said provocative statements about everything and everyone.

There were allegations of domestic abuse with Miles that are probably more troubling so I get your point.

[pamosmusic]

Hmm, perhaps an unfortunate choice of words under the circumstances..?

good point, revised.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

"The best book on jazz is still the collection of interviews by Art Taylor, Notes and Tones.".
I stopped reading there.

yeah, some really embarrassing shit there. ornette was terrible. ugh.

I am now halfway through the book. Are you refering to the way Ornette Coleman was talking about white homosexuals? Strange that if so, you just could not say so ...

If that talk quite at the beginning of a collection of interviews with very different individuals stopped you from reading on you probibited yourself from some priceless musical information like Don Byas on the way Art Tatum improvised or Johnny Griffin's description of his influences.

Back to Ornette using the words of an African-American homosexual: