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Interesting because they have pretty much the same approach and to the uninitiated they sound very similar.
Originally Posted by Jazz4Four
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08-03-2025 07:32 PM
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There’s more than enough Coltrane that I love. The Ellington album is a favorite. Originally Posted by Strat-itis
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It is OK to not like (or like) any musician, Bird, Trane, Monk or any of us who post on this forum.
It is not OK to slam the playing of someone who is demonstrably a fine player. But we each like what we like and dislike other stuff. Some like most everything and some are very particular. We all have our own tastes. That goes for music, cars, sexual partners etc.
I am not a big fan of cats like Anthony Braxton, Ornette Coleman or Albert Ayler. But I dig Bird, Cannonball and Stitt. I do admit that many cats I do not enjoy are great players, just not to my taste.
Joe Pass once opined that if you cannot hear a line, don't play it. I say that if you don't like a particular musical style, don't play it. Unless, of course, the money is really good.
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Yeah, such an important figure in the music, and lovable for his eccentricities alone. Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
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I'm not "uninitiated." I can hear the similarities. Originally Posted by wintermoon
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On this site it is absolutely VERBOTEN to not like anyone regarded as a 'great player' even if you feel sick when listening to them. The hordes will descend on you like demons and tear you limb from limb if you DARE to say anything against their idols and heroes.Jazz4Four
IS IT OK TO NOT LIKE CHARLIE PARKER?
In the real world, of course, you can prefer any kind of music you like, entirely up to you.
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My point exactly. I wasn't bashing anyone. I just find it interesting that saying you don't love Parker is sacrilege. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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No worries, no one said you were, I was making a general statement. Originally Posted by Jazz4Four
But you did say you weren't very familiar w Stitt.
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Wintermoon, I had heard of Stitt but never really listened to him. I will now. Originally Posted by wintermoon
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Uninitiated of course only means someone's not familiar, it's all good. Originally Posted by Jazz4Four
This is my favorite Stitt video.
If you know Sonny's personality you'd know he didn't like taking a back seat to anyone, not even another jazz giant.
But here everyone solos before him, including the bassist Tommy Potter, and the leader JJ Johnson takes a second solo before he realizes Sonny hasn't played yet and opens his eyes to see him looking down at his alto as if to say, you forgot me (7:30)
Check out the look he shoots JJ, and then Howard McGee seems to be saying something like 'let's play together' and Sonny shoots that idea right down, ha!
Don't mess w Stitt!
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I remember one time on a gig we had this kind of converstaion, just a casual talk about likes and dislikes, and I admitted I can't stand Jackie McLean tone, (it's true, it's really the opposite of what I like in sax playing). The bass player got really upset with me lol. Not enough to cease to be friends, but apparently he's a big fan, rub him the wrong way. Sometimes you need to read the room, but on internet is ok to have discussions like that, I think it's safe... Or is it? lol
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Love me some Jackie Mac! Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
I can understand if someone doesn't dig his tone, its not a classic alto sound but that probably adds to why I like it, he's different than everyone else and instantly recognizable. Here's a cool one on Lee Morgan's session, he's got a haunting crying sound, really fits this composition.
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I hope he will also find time to work on Parker's music too and finally clean it up
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I feel I like Charlie Parker, but don't want to listen to him for much more than 5-10 minutes at a time.
And I feel the best thing about Miles Davis' are the other musicians on his tracks.
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Don't worry, you'll get used to it :-) Originally Posted by Jazz4Four
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I find this to be a good quality audio recording of late Parker.
"Charlie Parker One Night In Washington"
Solo starts at 44sec.
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Charlie Parker with an Organ Trio
Charlie Parker & Milt Buckner Trio - Groovin' High
Birdland", New York City, March 23, 1953
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That video of Milt Jackson – he sounds terrific, but it's also so much fun to watch him play!
It seems that everyone else in the room, though – except for the drummer and the bass player – had been up for 3 nights straight without any sleep. How else to explain the total non-interest?
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There is a very clear quality audio recording of Charlie Parker from July 30, 1953 Fulton Recording Studio, New York NY, Commercial for Mercury.
Charlie Parker (as); Al Haig (p); Percy Heath (b); Max Roach (d)
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With me, it's not like that. Respect, admiration of technical skills, and so on, is all cerebral, isn't it? With me, it's got to 'hit the spot'. It's got to touch me in some way. It's got to reach the heart, not just the mind. Originally Posted by Blue J
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Parker does this for me............................ Originally Posted by ragman1
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That "general" statement is just wrong. Bebop became the center of jazz education because it became the center of the whole jazz movement in music. They don't call it the "bebop revolution" for nothing. It sounds to me like you only have the barest minimum understanding of bebop. I remember well not liking it very much the first time I heard it (but I loved Joe Pass, the "president" of bebop guitar). I also didn't like John Scofield or Pat Metheny. But in each case, the better I got, the more immersed in the music I became, the more I appreciated these players and in each case there was a moment when I "got it." Originally Posted by Jazz4Four
If you decide to play jazz but not study bebop, you need to think very seriously about how you will organize your musical quest. You could become a "swing revival" guitarist, and there are some of those and they are very good, but it's a niche. You could play gypsy jazz, again, great but a kind of niche. You could also try to move in the direction of Jim Hall, but sometimes I feel like his non-bop playing is a kind of invitation to bebop. Hard to explain... he could play it well, but just went a different direction. IN any event, the decision not to pursue bebop means you have to decide just what kind of approach to jazz you want to pursue, and that's an entirely great thing to do.
At any rate, you can also just try to play standards using scales and blues licks. I think that's what I finally did because (a) I love bebop but (b) apparently don't have the talent! That can be fun, it will fool a lot of audiences, and you're out there playing.
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I've never met anyone who felt "compelled" to like Charlie Parker. When you listen to the guy, it either grabs you or it doesn't. If it does, you're lost forever to the bebop universe. If it doesn't you can play other kinds of jazz though I don't know if just skipping over bop works well. Originally Posted by Jazz4Four
Nobody made a law that said you gotta like Bird. He earned it.
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Tommy Tedesco once said his artistic vision was down to 2 questions: "How much does it pay?" and "How long does it last?" Originally Posted by Stringswinger
Joe Pass once opined that if you cannot hear a line, don't play it. I say that if you don't like a particular musical style, don't play it. Unless, of course, the money is really good.
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