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Cheeky title but a serious question. I just can't get into the guy. I don't like his phrasing, and it doesn't sound particularly musical to my ear. I get that part of the idea behind Bebop was to have a different kind of melody—more complex and not as singable. But I don't see that as "better." Donna Lee is based on "Back Home In Indiana Again"; I would rather listen to someone play that than Donna Lee. I have no desire to learn how to play like that either (not that there is any danger of that). Heresy, I know.
More in general: My guess is that Bebop was chosen as the center of jazz education for music schools because it is hard to play. And resultantly, Bebop is heralded as the "best" form of jazz. Furthermore, is there even a clear definition of what Bebop is? Joe Pass played Bebop and I love Joe Pass.
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08-03-2025 12:22 PM
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It is definitely NOT OK to not like Bird.
Just kidding, you can dig whoever you want, even if you're wrong about this, and make no mistake, you're oh so wrong.
Again, just kidding.....I think
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joe pass didnt suffer fools gladly
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For now. You will learn to get into it as your ears develop
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It's perfectly fine because Joe didn't like Bird either....
Originally Posted by Jazz4Four
I Remember Charlie Parker - Joe Pass | Album | AllMusic
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That's the thing—I don't think it's that. Originally Posted by RyanM
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I know this album well, and like it. Originally Posted by Mick-7
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Is there any other jazz musician outside of Miles Davis, that one *has* to like? I'm not trolling here, I'm serious. I just don't see why every fan of jazz needs to think Parker is the end all be all of music. Not saying he's not great, he's just not my taste. I have tried to "understand" the appeal for 30 years. I keep thinking I'll come around, and I don't. I cannot be the only one who thinks this. Originally Posted by wintermoon
It is definitely NOT OK to not like Bird.
Just kidding, you can dig whoever you want, even if you're wrong about this, and make no mistake, you're oh so wrong.
Again, just kidding.....I think
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recent studies show that talking about oneself, particularly in ways that involve self-disclosure, can trigger a dopamine rush in the brain. This release of dopamine, a neurotransmitter associated with pleasure and reward, can create a feeling of satisfaction and motivation. Originally Posted by Jazz4Four
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You can say that you don'like Charlie Parker ONLY if you are a Great Artist with several grammy-winner albums under the belt.
You can say that you dont like Mozart ONLY if you are the most respected classical pianist in the world and the nr.1 performer of the Bach opera (Ramhin Barhami).
You can say that you don't like Miles Davis ONLY if you are Louis Armstrong.
You can say that you don't like The Beatles ONLY if you are Frank Zappa.
....you get he point...
Ettore
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Pat Martino said in an interview he never got into Charlie Parker.
I don't like everything CP recorded, but sure love some of it. Like the solo on Dizzy Atmosphere is killing, the Night In Tunisia of course, Yardbird Suite, My Little Suede Shoes, stuff like that.
Donna Lee is weird, it's like you better learn how to play it, and I enjoy playing it and practicing all the time, but I'd also rather LISTEN to Indiana tbh. I don't know, it's just like a hip thing to show off, and I leave it at that.
For some reason I actually prefer Dizzy Gillespie, maybe he had much longer career, more to choose from, but I really dig his playing and tunes.
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And then there's Thelonious Monk, Bud Powell, et. al., feel free to pick the one you (dis)like most.
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Parker’s Mood is probably a good track to try for people who don’t normally like his playing.
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Try circling back to him once in a while. For the longest time I found Parker cold somehow. My house gods were Rollins, Gordon, the Miles/Coltrane/Adderley lineup. Then one day it clicked
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How do you feel about Sonny Stitt?
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Swing fans might not like Parker, because Bebop changed Jazz in many ways. The Jazz rhythmic feel was changed for ever. Bebop is not dance music, swing music is dance music.
For evidence, listen the the beat on a 1940-50's classic Bebop recording and the beat on a classic 1930's Swing recording.
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I don't necessarily "dislike" Parker. In fact, I just put on "Bird's Best Bop on Verve." It's great, as expected. Just not my "go to" jazz. Originally Posted by Mick-7
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And what about Charlie Christian? He was right in there at Minton's inventing Bebop along with Bird, Dizzy, Monk, et al. Originally Posted by Mick-7
Maybe it's an individual's way of playing Bebop the OP don't like?
Doug
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So in a few hours you went from disliking him.... Originally Posted by Jazz4Four
"I just can't get into the guy. I don't like his phrasing, and it doesn't sound particularly musical to my ear"
to....
I don't necessarily "dislike" Parker. In fact, I just put on "Bird's Best Bop on Verve." It's great, as expected.
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Fair enough! I probably overstated it. My thoughts haven't changed. Originally Posted by wintermoon
My secondary point was I find it interesting how everyone feels compelled to like Parker, and I was curious if there were others who recognized his greatness but didn't necessarily love his playing. I put myself in that category.
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Anyone who dislikes Monk is suspect at best. Originally Posted by Mick-7
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I'm also offa Charlie Parker. I like the lines themselves. I like how they're super tight and articulate rhythmically, and outline the changes famously while still making a great melody like Bach. But I don't like the tone and often the tempo. Hearing a squeal doesn't exactly invoke enjoyment for me. Then I find up tempos frenetic, annoying, and tiring. Although when he slows down and doesn't squeal, I find it very beautiful.
Can't turn that off fast enough. Originally Posted by grahambop
My favorite player right now is Milt Jackson. Vibes is one of the most beautiful tones in jazz and sounds much better than a squeal. :P He has pretty formidable command of bop language, overlaid with heavy bluez feel, then no sqealing. Way more my thing.
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I didn’t like Parker 5 years ago, John Coltrane too. I’m deep in the weeds of Parker bootlegs now. But I still can’t stand A Love Supreme. I understand and like to hear soloing over changes, Coltranes best is not that. So for those reasons, I’m out.
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^ I likes me some Coltrane. I like his 'angular' approach to sax with is kind of rare. I like his sheets of sound interspersed with quirky melody. Then of course he could be deeply melodic on ballads.
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Admittedly I don't know a lot of Sonny Stitt, but I from what I've heard I like him. Originally Posted by wintermoon
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