What did you learn from Miles Davis?

[DC Cornelius]

If you keep contradicting yourself, no one here is going to take you seriously.....

I was 8 years old Mick- a kid!! Nearly 50 years ago! Long long before I started writing my own stuff....

[Mick-7]

I was 8 years old Mick- a kid!! Nearly 50 years ago! Long long before I started writing my own stuff....

o.k. but you said you've never copied other players - never say never.

There's actually no such thing as, "your own music," like everyone else, you've been influenced by all the music(ians) you've heard and admired in your life, whether or not you made a conscious effort to copy or study it.

[Hep To The Jive]

I don’t know man. You sound jealous.

Just kidding.

It probably helps that it was shoved down my throat when I was ten. So it has the same place in my heart as like … dominoes pizza and Pokemon

EDIT: I would also like to clarify that I still believe that Dominoes pizza and Pokemon rule. Original 150 anyway, but that’s a separate discussion. I think Smooth ft Rob Thomas also rules. So there we go.

I'm anything but jealous, he can have all the money and fame I don't care. I never wanted to be a mega star, I prefer niche players. Not that I reached that goal either yet ))

I have to live with understamding that my taste in music, in pop music anyway, is very different from the mainstream. It's very rare that I accept anything that super popular in masses, I could be a snob, I don't know. But a lot of pop icons mean nothing to my life. Santana became one of those household names and associated with pop more than anything meaningful in my mind.

Funny thing is I do have to play the fckn Smooth as part of the bar gigs or weddings sometimes. I always keep my mouth shut with my opinions though. I just let loose on the forum.

[Peter C]

Hep isn't 100 miles off target regarding Santana, but you'd probably need to have played a lot in the rock idiom (i.e. played) to get it. Anyway, this is a jazz forum.

Btw, I don't see the point in debating about Miles if you feel you didn't learn anything from him especially (ahem) if you can really play in your own style. JMO.

[kris]

o.k. but you said you've never copied other players - never say never.

There's actually no such thing as, "your own music," like everyone else, you've been influenced by all the music(ians) you've heard and admired in your life, whether or not you made a conscious effort to copy or study it.

+1

[DC Cornelius]

Funny thing is I do have to play the fckn Smooth as part of the bar gigs or weddings sometimes. I always keep my mouth shut with my opinions though. I just let loose on the forum.

Yep, If I say I've sat & worked out hundreds, probably thousands of tracks over the years for work= am I being influenced? What!? With elton fekin john & the pet shop boys as examples!?!? ERRR NO.Still, what do I know? Apparently nothing= maybe I have & just don't realize it

[DC Cornelius]

I didn't copy him, Mick. I set myself a challenge as an 8 year old.. Plus, The Kessel track in question isn't a jazz standard, is it!?!? With regards to my reply to kris

[DC Cornelius]

Btw, I don't see the point in debating about Miles if you feel you didn't learn anything from him especially (ahem) if you can really play in your own style. JMO.

The header of this thread is: 'What did you learn from Miles Davis' in an open public jazz forum. The OP should have stated something like: 'only MD lovers should reply'== I would not have replied!!! All this because I said I don't like MD's playing & music & didn't learn anything... Very strange IMO

[pamosmusic]

I'm anything but jealous, he can have all the money and fame I don't care. I never wanted to be a mega star, I prefer niche players. Not that I reached that goal either yet ))

I have to live with understamding that my taste in music, in pop music anyway, is very different from the mainstream. It's very rare that I accept anything that super popular in masses, I could be a snob, I don't know. But a lot of pop icons mean nothing to my life. Santana became one of those household names and associated with pop more than anything meaningful in my mind.

Funny thing is I do have to play the fckn Smooth as part of the bar gigs or weddings sometimes. I always keep my mouth shut with my opinions though. I just let loose on the forum.

It was clear I was kidding?

[pamosmusic]

The header of this thread is: 'What did you learn from Miles Davis' in an open public jazz forum. The OP should have stated something like: 'only MD lovers should reply'== I would not have replied!!! All this because I said I don't like MD's playing & music & didn't learn anything... Very strange IMO

It would be chill af if we could stop litigating why people thought you were saying something else.

[Litterick]

Even if a jazz musician doesn't play standards, they should be able to. It's a baseline, and I'm not sure how one could learn jazz without studying how to play on standards. Standards are also a way for people to play with other musicians, even if meeting for the first time at jam sessions. Everyone knows Stella, for instance, and if you can play on Stella you show that you can play jazz.

Knowing standards is essential for playing the kinds of jazz that preceded Miles Davis. They also confirm that the player is a real jazz musician in the straight-ahead way. When John McLaughlin played Cherokee with the Tonight Show Band, he reassured the jazz fans that he was not an imposter, that he had chops, that his contributions to Bitches Brew and other albums were not without mere rock music.

[QUOTE=supersoul;1410504I think Miles didn't care for the term "jazz," he just made the music that he made. He was criticized a lot in the 80s as not being jazz, and he thought the criticism was stupid. I like 80s Miles a lot; it's good music and I love that he kept changing.[/QUOTE]

He was not chained by repertoire and history. He was not required to play Stella.

[DC Cornelius]

It would be chill af if we could stop litigating why people thought you were saying something else.

nope, you've lost me there

[James W]

The header of this thread is: 'What did you learn from Miles Davis' in an open public jazz forum. The OP should have stated something like: 'only MD lovers should reply'== I would not have replied!!! All this because I said I don't like MD's playing & music & didn't learn anything... Very strange IMO

What's strange is that you come onto this thread to repeatedly proclaim your opinion. To state this once again: we get it, now, please be on your way, so to speak.

This is a jazz guitar forum - it is slightly trollish to repeatedly state your negative opinion of Miles Davis, it's sort of tantamount to if I started repeatedly saying I thought the guitar is a rubbish instrument on this forum.

It begs the question: why click on the thread in the first place?

[pamosmusic]

nope, you've lost me there

obvs

[DC Cornelius]

What's strange is that you come onto this thread to repeatedly proclaim your opinion. To state this once again: we get it, now, please be on your way, so to speak.This is a jazz guitar forum - it is slightly trollish to repeatedly state your negative opinion of Miles Davis,

All I do is reply to people telling me I'm wrong & don't understand jazz because I'm not particularly enamoured with MD! As opposed to just replying with something like: 'OK, it's your opinion- fair enough' & leaving it at that. But most folk have done nothing more than have ago at me for my opinion!?!? Is my opinion trolling? Apparently so

[wolflen]

Not a jazz standard I'm sure but I couldn't stop listening to Barney Kessel's version of 'Easy to Be Hard' off the 'Hair is beautiful' album. At the age of 8 I worked it all out & was playing it perfectly according to my dad, bless him. But the thing that blew me away the most was the organ solo... So I learned how to play that as well.

Depending on who is providing the definition of a standard.

The tune, like many songs/compositions from stage productions has a harmonic structure aligned with the "standard format" II7-V7 IM and some modulation.

I have not heard that song in years. Hair..god..time is teasing me. I lived in walking distance from the Aquarius Theater on Sunset Blvd in Hollywood
which I would pass almost every day. I never felt any pull to see the production. After its run..the posters, murals and Marque still were visible but now were covered in dirt and some graffiti the lobby empty with some trash.

Looking back.. the "hippy" thing actually died before the production..long hair and psyc rock tried its best to resurrect it..outside of some major cities..college towns..life went on
few noticed its passing away.

[Peter C]

The header of this thread is: 'What did you learn from Miles Davis' in an open public jazz forum. The OP should have stated something like: 'only MD lovers should reply'== I would not have replied!!! All this because I said I don't like MD's playing & music & didn't learn anything... Very strange IMO

Yeah, obviously no issue not liking/relating to a particular artist and stating it. Go crazy, however you see it. The thing is, I think you were perceived as implying that he was not a major contributor to jazz (and contemporary music in general), which is nuts IMHO. His soulful, haunting trumpet lines are etched into the collective psyche of more than one generation and probably even influenced some of the way you phrase the guitar in that cool track you posted in the composition subforum, without even being aware of it.

All JMHO and I'll admit that there is a slim chance that I'm insane and/or speaking from a parallel universe. You never know.

[DC Cornelius]

Depending on who is providing the definition of a standard.

Yep, exactly.. I was going to ask: 'define a jazz standard' but I refrained for fear of trolling

[pamosmusic]

Yep, exactly.. I was going to ask: 'define a jazz standard' but I refrained for fear of trolling

A song composed by jazz musicians for the purpose of being played by jazz musicians, and commonly adapted and performed by other jazz musicians.

An American songbook standard is an American popular song composed for popular consumption, often Broadway or film, that is frequently adapted and performed by jazz musicians.

the term jazz standard is also regularly used and understood to be a general term referring to the body of shared repertoire, consisting of both jazz and popular compositions.

Not that hard if you know what you’re talking about.

[DC Cornelius]

The thing is, I think you were perceived as implying that he was not a major contributor to jazz (and contemporary music in general), which is nuts IMHO.

Yeah, it is nuts!! I never once suggested that anywhere in this thread! MD has not influenced ME PERSONALLY as a guitar player.. That's all I said. How is it possible to be influenced by playing & music you don't like!? I don't get that......It's like a bible basher telling me, a "staunch atheist" that I do believe in god, I just don't know it! Just My Opinion

[Peter C]

Underestimating a jazz icon is probably very risky.

Reading back, FWIW, here seems to be what sparked things off. DC said no likey which was interpreted as an underestimation; pas la même chose. This is not the first instance of a misunderstanding of this nature here, LOL.

[pamosmusic]

Yeah, it is nuts!! I never once suggested that anywhere in this thread! MD has not influenced ME PERSONALLY as a guitar player.. That's all I said. How is it possible to be influenced by playing & music you don't like!? I don't get that......It's like a bible basher telling me, a "staunch atheist" that I do believe in god, I just don't know it! Just My Opinion

Good god man, please stop

[DC Cornelius]

A song composed by jazz musicians for the purpose of being played by jazz musicians, and commonly adapted and performed by other jazz musicians.

An American songbook standard is an American popular song composed for popular consumption, often Broadway or film, that is frequently adapted and performed by jazz musicians.

the term jazz standard is also regularly used and understood to be a general term referring to the body of shared repertoire, consisting of both jazz and popular compositions.

Not that hard if you know what you’re talking about.

Therefore there must be many pieces written that are not classed as jazz standards then? Would that be because they are not good enough? What's good is a matter of opinion- who determines what's good?

[pamosmusic]

Therefore there must be many pieces written that are not classed as jazz standards then? Would that be because they are not good enough? What's good is a matter of opinion- who determines what's good?

No it would be determined by whether or not they are commonly performed by jazz musicians.

[DC Cornelius]

Good god man, please stop

it's only attitudes like yours that makes me feel a need to respond...ignore me & don't reply mate! Simple, isn't it.. All due respect