The Jimmy Bruno Thread

[pamosmusic]

You make it sound like a "world class guitarist" in every town is the norm, something that shouldn't be hard to find if you just turn up to any town and head to the local jam session.

Luck plays a very important role, I know it from personal experience in my family (nothing guitar related). But luck can only get you that far, you also need to be very good to make "it". Better than most.

And yes, people have blind spots. Famous maxim from the Temple of Apollo at Delphi in ancient Greece: Know thyself

Peace

Well … every town he went to.

Presumably Jimmy is touring small cities and college towns but not like … the 3,000 person town I grew up in.

[bediles]

Well … every town he went to.

Presumably Jimmy is touring small cities and college towns but not like … the 3,000 person town I grew up in.

Still, that's quite a few towns.

[pamosmusic]

Still, that's quite a few towns.

True.

This is a conundrum.

its not like Jimmy to exaggerate …

[AllanAllen]

I don’t see the problem. You all don’t know someone locally who is better than you?

[pamosmusic]

I don’t see the problem. You all don’t know someone locally who is better than you?

Of course I do.

But they don’t need to be world class to be better than me, my guy

[AllanAllen]

Of course I do.

But they don’t need to be world class to be better than me, my guy

Yeah, very true for me too. I don’t know what to tell the naysayers, not like JB is going to come here to defend some anecdote to a bunch of us dorks.

[jameslovestal]

Of course I do.

But they don’t need to be world class to be better than me, my guy

I'm with you on that vague comment by JB. It appears other are talking the comment literally.

I define "world class" as being known worldwide (well at least the western world or their home country), have made and sold recordings and given gigs\concerts, outside of their home area.

What I assume JB meant by "world class" was musicians that know their shit (can play and play well, know standards, can hold their own). That makes sense, especially since "luck" was mentioned with this context.

Thus, to rephase the comment: In most cities I have gigged there are always first-rate players that just are unknown, outside of their local area, because they didn't have the luck I had.

[AllanAllen]

I'm with you on that vague comment by JB. It appears other are talking the comment literally.

I define "world class" as being known worldwide (well at least the western world or their home country), have made and sold recordings and given gigs\concerts, outside of their home area.

What I assume JB meant by "world class" was musicians that know their shit (can play and play well, know standards, can hold their own). That makes sense, especially since "luck" was mentioned with this context.

Thus, to rephase the comment: In most cities I have gigged there are always first-rate players that just are unknown, outside of their local area, because they didn't have the luck I had.

Yeah, we aren't going by your definition of world class though. JB has been through the machine and he gets it, world class =/= popular and popular =/= playing well. How often does he mention the guy with great hair who can't play shit.

[jameslovestal]

Yeah, we aren't going by your definition of world class though. JB has been through the machine and he gets it, world class =/= popular and popular =/= playing well. How often does he mention the guy with great hair who can't play shit.

Sorry, not following what "=/=" is suppose to communicate.

[AllanAllen]

Does not equal. I’m honestly not sure why I thought everyone would know that.

[sgosnell]

Most programming languages I've dabbled in use !== for that, but there are many outliers.

[AllanAllen]

I think I picked it up in Linear Equations or Analysis. I used it in proofs somehow. College was a long time ago.

[ragman1]

The universal symbol for not-equal is a cancelled equals sign. Which is



Since the forum's font doesn't support that it can be conveyed with

=/=

as Allan has done.

College has little to do with it, it's general knowledge.

[Cunamara]

in any event, mathematical representations notwithstanding, other players have noted the same thing. Joe Pass also commented that he found players all over the world who were outstanding and unknown outside of their community. This happens in every field, though, so it's not a surprise. You can find a brilliant doctor in a little town in Iowa rather than at the Mayo Clinic, for example.

Joe also mentioned having people contact him for private lessons when he was touring, only to find that they couldn't even manage to play their way through a 12 bar blues.

[ragman1]

world-class

This is one of those amusing thingss. If a person plays an instrument (or some other activity) at a level recognised as the best in the world but no one has ever heard it and no one knows about them, are they still world-class?

Well, yes, they are. But the term generally refers to those who perform their feats in public and are recognised for it.

world class =/= popular and popular =/= playing well

Absolutely. Popular certainly does NOT mean they play at a world-class level. Nor does 'playing well' mean world-class either.

[GuyBoden]

This is one of those amusing thingss. If a person plays an instrument (or some other activity) at a level recognised as the best in the world but no one has ever heard it and no one knows about them, are they still world-class?

Nice, similar to "If a Tree Falls in the Forest, and There’s No One Around to Hear It, Does It Make a Sound?"

The tension between "Perception and Reality".

[AllanAllen]

We’ve lost the narrative here. My point was AdriotMage is wrong, practicing real hard and wanting it isn’t enough.

[Grigoris]

He's not wrong

you're just missing a crucial element in your point:
1. Practicing Real Hard

2. Getting Real Good (like: much better than most others)
3. Wanting It

+ luck

So, you have to be really, really good to make "it"; not so-so good, not ok good. Very good.

Peace

[pamosmusic]

He's not wrong

you're just missing a crucial element in your point:
1. Practicing Real Hard

2. Getting Real Good (like: much better than most others)
3. Wanting It

+ luck

So, you have to be really, really good to make "it"; not so-so good, not ok good. Very good.

Peace

Man — the “wanting it” thing is so annoying.

You see that trope in so many areas — health and wellness, financial success, skill, professional fulfillment.

It’s a way of making someone’s lack of external validation for their work a reflection on their character.

And what do they have to want in this instance? Do they have to want the musicianship? Do they have to want the monetary/critical success? Those are two very different skills and require allotting your time in very different ways.

This whole back and forth started because Allan and others said that being good and being successful are not the same thing and require different skill sets. Apologies, but there’s no reasonable disagreement with that.

[Grigoris]

I didn't want to invalidate his point about wanting it, that's why I left it in there, but truth be told whether you want it or not, on its own makes little difference.
EXCEPT if you're willing to act on it by ways of self promotion, being open to opportunities, or as people say "make your own luck".

But you have to be good, too.

[Doctor Jeff]

Listened to Billy Strings’ interview with Rick Beato—well worth the listen.

He obviously had a lot of luck, especially having parents that (though not well off) lived and breathed music. And he practiced incessantly.

But what you realize is that he has an INCREDIBLE ear. Practically without formal training, he learned how to play all the parts in the complicated bluegrass songs he was playing along with. And separate out all the vocal parts.

I think that’s what separates out the world class players (like JB) from us mere mortals.

[pamosmusic]

I didn't want to invalidate his point about wanting it, that's why I left it in there, but truth be told whether you want it or not, on its own makes little difference.
EXCEPT if you're willing to act on it by ways of self promotion, being open to opportunities, or as people say "make your own luck".

But you have to be good, too.

No one said you don’t have to be good, but you don’t have to be “the best,” and lots of great players aren’t known outside their scene or whatever.

As for “wanting it,” you would have to want to be a musician to do any of this stuff, whether you ended up successful or not. So including it is superfluous at best.

I had a lesson with a great guitarist once who said “if you want to play this music, you have to love this music.” And thats a better framing to me. No mention of validation or success.

[ragman1]

practicing real hard and wanting it isn’t enough.

Not enough for what?

[Christian Miller]

LOL, I never said that's all you have to do, but yes if you really want it, you'll do that.

Metheny, by his own admission, woodshedded like a maniac for 10 hours a day from the age of 12 until he was 19 or 20 and teaching at Berkley. I could tell you a lot of other true stories like that.

I also said in a previous post that you have to be really honest with yourself about how good you are. If you're shedding like crazy and still not sounding great, then maybe being a musician is not for you. The truth is, not everyone has the ear to be a great musician. Joe also said that being a good player of improvised music is more about hearing than playing because you can't play what you can't hear. I happen to agree with that statement.

Especially in jazz though, that shedding time is important.

Metheny still had to book the gigs and drive the car.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AdroitMage]

Nice, similar to "If a Tree Falls in the Forest, and There’s No One Around to Hear It, Does It Make a Sound?"

The tension between "Perception and Reality".

I don't know about anyone else, but, to me, the answer to that question is definitely yes. For one, I could never be that egotistical to think anything else because, at the very least, there are animals in the forest that will hear it or certainly just some insects in the forest who will hear the tree. So it definitely makes a sound because there are other ears around to hear, AND simply because the laws of physics cannot be broken. That is my take on it, anyway.