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Let’s get some Elle improv videos / audio posted soon. I’ll have some time in the next few days.
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12-22-2019 12:38 PM
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I am very much deep into Ex 2.2 seeing the new F#m7 / E fingerings as connective tissue linking the other fingerings . I love the way they connect travelling along the neck and am really enjoying the organization on the fretboard. It has also proven very helpful to articulate verbally each triad but also to play them as two distinct three note groups as well as one connected 6 note group. As far as "Elle" goes I have been through the melody and identified the extensions as suggested and have played through the changes a couple of times but it just sounds like some triads and some pretty notes right now. There seems like a lot to learn in chapter 2 that it makes sense for me to save recording something on "Elle" until I feel more grounded with the tools chapter 2 provides and aim to get that done by the end of January.
Originally Posted by wzpgsr
WillLast edited by WillMbCdn5; 12-22-2019 at 11:09 PM.
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As hoped for, Santa did leave a copy of this book at the bottom of the chimney, so I shall endeavour to join in. Not sure I'll catch up with you guys (more than likely to slip further behind), but hopefully I'll be able to contribute.
Cheers
Derek
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Nothing much to catch up with yet... Originally Posted by digger
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Glad you got the book and that you're in. Originally Posted by digger
You're not behind as this train hasn't left the station yet.
The triad shapes are not hard, though it may take some time to get used to shifting them around the way Garrison recommends. That's time well spent, I think.
Your presence alone is a welcome and needed contribution. ;o)
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I scanned through the whole book last night, and I must admit I'm really looking forward to working my way through it. There some great stuff in there, although my memory is already creaking with just the few chord sequences and licks and melodies I've recently learned, so I'm not sure how much more room there is!
Anyway, I've raced through a couple of pages and am now working on the two basic patterns (5th string root and 6th string root) going round the cycle of 5th, with just the pesky F#m and Em alternative fingerings throwing a spanner in the works. I'll probably be here a while before listening to Elle and then attempting something over it.
The other "to do" element is a bit embarrassing. I'm ashamed to say that there are a few things in the theory recap of Chapter One that I need to learn. The melodic minor and the harmonic minor, ingraining the "characteristic" note from each mode, a little on chord function (luckily only a little), and all that stuff about tensions. So a bit of work to be done here, too.
Back to it, I guess...
Derek
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Just ordered this, will arrive tomorrow. Looking forward to being part of a study group for the first time! Even though I’m already behind. In that sense, this already mirrors my entire academic life!! :-)
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Here are a couple of takes at Chapter 2
2.2 take 1
2.2 take 2
Elle
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Nice playing, and nice guitar collection in the background! Originally Posted by Doublea A
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Nice playing, Doublea A! And welcome, digger and GuitarJay.
digger, if you run into any questions in your theory review, just shout. Plenty of us will be happy to help.
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Firstly, thanks to Jehu and Doublea A for the offer of help with theory. I'll be sure to shout if needs be - but I think it's just a bit of learning / memorisation / ingraining is needed, mainly on getting the harmonic and melodic minor scales under my fingers.
Anyway, back to GF. I'm currently working on the basic shapes trying to get them under my fingers. This isn't too hard as they fall nicely there, but the concern is that I'll end up doing what I do with all my arps - be able to play them up and down from the root, but not from the middle. Or rather, not instantly from the middle - I always need a few seconds to figure out what chord I'm on, what the arp / triad is, what options I have (i.e. choose a non-root note) and then... oh blast, the band's moved on to the next chord!
This is especially true at the point a chord changes e.g. in Elle, when Amin7 changes to Ebmin7. Whatever note I'm on, on Am7, I'd like to be able to instantly move to a note in the Ebm7 triads. But it's not just for these two chords - it could be any two chords. And, of course, at the same time it needs to be done in a melodic way. I guess that's what this book is all about so maybe, returning to Elle in 12 months time, the answers might be more apparent.
I did, however, have one revelation whilst out riding the bike this morning.
The notes, including tension notes, for Am7 are: A C E G B D. Firstly that's 6 notes. That's 50% of all available notes. So if I randomly hit any note I'm in with a good shout of getting one that fits... Maybe.
The notes in Ebm7 are: Eb Gb Bb Db F Ab. Which are the other 6 notes. So (for this chord change at least) the answer to my question is to simply slide up or down one fret, and then quickly figure out which fingering I'm then part of.
Not sure this makes sense, even to me...
Cheers
DerekLast edited by digger; 12-29-2019 at 08:09 AM.
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Thanks DA. Beautiful relaxed playing. Lovely tone as well. What kind of guitar is that?
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It’s a modified MIM Thinline Telecaster. I replaced with a Warmoth Maple Neck. I put Locking Tuners on it and I replaced the original bridge with a Babicz. Originally Posted by TomDC
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It’s not as hard as you think. You may be over thinking it. The answers are under your fingers. Play the examples as described and the theory will be become clear. Originally Posted by digger
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I've no doubt you're right! I just know it's a weak point of mine - knowing the big shapes but not the small (i.e. not being able to grab a fragment of the shape instantly). But a quick look over the coming pages and I think I can see how the book's progression will help address this. Originally Posted by Doublea A
Meanwhile, I've recorded an effort at Ex 2.1 - just playing the given melody (a little out of time!) and then a short improv' using the 2.1 fingerings for Gmin7.
Back to working the shapes through the cycle, now.
Cheers
Derek
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Don't have the book yet, but Amazon has a look inside feature and I could see exercise 2.1 & 2.2. Not sure if the book comes with backing tracks, I just did my own. 2.1 & 2.2:
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Originally Posted by fep
Nice, Frank! So glad you've joined the group. Love your guitar sound here, and that's a good groove to play this stuff over.
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Well done, fep - that's how you turn an exercise into music. Glad you joined!
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I agree with Tommo that Frank (fep) turned the exercise into music. That's the endgame. But I'm still at the starting gate: playing through the sequence without losing my place (-most of the time). And trying to get the picking and fingering right. I've become painfully aware that I tend to alternate pick even when it makes things harder for me.
I'm doing an overhaul of my room---added a bookcase, removing a desk and some file cabinets (-would love to keep it all but my room has become too cramped to function comfortably in, so as Johnny Mercer put it, "Something's Gotta Give"----so it may be a few days before I post a video. But I'm very much in this thing, playing from this book daily now.
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Friends,
I gotta say.. the first few exercises were awful for me. I didn't enjoy them. I think for this time in my musical life, this is not the book for me right now. I hope you all have a great learning experience and I a sure you will, but this isn't for me right now.
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Sorry to hear! I’m curious, is it too easy, too hard, didn’t connect with what you already know, doesn’t sound like music, or ...? Originally Posted by lawson-stone
I just got the book yesterday and I’m playing exercise 2.1 on pages 12 and 13. I created a backing track in iRealPro in 4/4 time and I’m having fun jamming on the exercise. I’m bad at following instructions exactly, but I’ll try 2.2 in 3/4 time as notated.
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That first exercise in 3/4 just did not sound musical to me, and used open strings, which I avoid, did position shifts that seemed out of place to me. It's possible some other time in my musical growth this will be "the book" I need. I had the Raney solos for 20 years before I latched on to them, though I'd started with them many times. I'm sure it's a great book and approach, but I haven't got time to keep plodding though something I don't like in the hopes things will change. Plenty out there that does grab me. Originally Posted by GuitarJay
Not knocking the author, the approach, or anything else. Just not for me right now.
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Sorry to hear that, Lawson. But I'm old enough to realize that we can need to learn NOW is a function of where we are, and you are not "here" right now. It's better to realize that, admit that, and move on, perhaps to return later. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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OK, at the risk of looking like a doofus, here goes: Exercise 2.2, starting on page 14, the text at the top of the page talks about Cycle 5 and the second paragraph starts with, "Start with G minor on the tenth fret, and then move down a fifth to C minor."
Isn't moving from G to C a fourth, not a fifth? In fact this entire exercise seems like it is moving through a cycle of fourths, not fifths.
What am I missing? Maybe it is the fact that he's moving "down" from G to C. I've never encountered this line of thinking, but I'm far from a theory expert.
Thank you!
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Up a 4th G to C, G A B C Originally Posted by GuitarJay
Down a 5th also G to C, G F E D C
I've heard it traditionally referred to as the cycle of 5ths (though it could have been a cycle of 4ths but common practice decided on 5ths, not sure why), which is down a 5th (but up a 4th is the same thing). I'm use to this pattern for the cycle (note it sometimes goes down a 5th and sometimes up a 4th).
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Talking about exercise 2.1 & 2.2...
About 40 years ago I read Larry Carlton writing about what he called a "Super Arpeggio" and that was part of his triad approach.
Long story short, start on a note and start going up in thirds (often works out to major third alternating with a minor third, use your ears). Take chunks of those notes and use them for melodic ideas.
Say you start with G and go up in 3rds...
G Bb D F A C E G well that's all good for Gm, and yep it looks a lot like Fewell's exercise 2.1.
So using that you can play off of G Bb D (Gm triad), Bb D F (Bb triad), D F A (Dm triad), A C E (Am triad), A C E (Am triad), C E G (C triad)... Yeah playing Am stuff over Gm, sounds upper extensioney...
This is a simplification for me, start on any chord tone and head off in 3rds, don't even need to be aware of triad names that way.
Near the end of the exercise posted, I alternated between a C and Bb triad while the backing was Gm... which, is the same kind of thing that Larry Carlton did in that tune that was posted earlier in this thread.
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Thank you. I guess the picture on page 5 was throwing me as it is fifths if you move clockwise and I guess I just think in that direction, but I'm going bi-directional from now on. Originally Posted by fep
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The way I have learned this is called "backcycling" - going through the cycle of fifths counter-clockwise. Originally Posted by GuitarJay
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A fifth is a backwards fourth. In other words a cycle 5 means resolving from a dominant chord to the tonic such as G7 going to C or C7 to F. Originally Posted by GuitarJay
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The cycle (or circle, if one is picturing the roots on a clock face) can be thought of as moving in fifths or fourths. I just say 'the cycle'. Originally Posted by GuitarJay
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While the cycle of fifths is the most commonly used there are also the cycles of 3rds/6ths and 2nds/7ths. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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Yes the total of the numbers always equals 9 ( for you math geeks out there ). Originally Posted by TOMMO
5ths are backwards 4ths and vice versa. 5 plus 4 equals 9. 3rds are backwards 6ths and vice versa. 3 plus 6 equals 9. And 2nds are backwards 7ths and vice versa. 2 plus 7 equals 9.
Well, that ends my math class for today. See you in 2020.
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I beg to differ here: it always equals 8 = octave. A fifth and a fourth make up an octave - same with the other complementary intervals... Originally Posted by Doublea A
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I think he's referring to flipping intervals upside down. 9-6=3, so your 6th turns into a 3rd if the top note is lowered an octave. CA is a 6th, but AC is a 3rd. Originally Posted by TOMMO
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Ah - I see - thanks, never looked at it that way. Originally Posted by corpse
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I was hoping to have made a little more progress on this book before today, as tomorrow it's back to work, and the few hours a day I've been putting in will be sadly vastly reduced.
Still, hopefully I'll meet the end of Jan target for completing Chapter Two.
Currently I'm still working on playing the shapes in Exercise 2.2 through the cycle. I'm learning them backwards and forwards, and just starting to apply the "extra" shapes (the F#m and Em) - which are essentially the same, save for one note - to all the other keys, again backwards and forwards. This gives three positions for each key, up and down.
My biggest issue remains the one I wrote about earlier in the thread - jumping from one chord and its associated shapes to another in a split second. I need to nail this before attempting Elle, and I fear this may take some time.
My second biggest issue, and one that I'm trying to address through other studies, is to try and sound jazzy whilst doing all of this!
But great fun, and I'm looking forward to persevering even as the practice time diminishes.
Happy new year!
Derek
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Well, if b3 is considered to be 3, b6-6 ... then OK, but ... Originally Posted by corpse
... 9 thing is about number of 8 note scale scale degrees used to reach same note, no "if"s, no exceptions:
CDE, 3/ *2
CBAGFE, 6/ *5
ABC, 3/ *2
AGFEDC, 6/ *5
BC, 2/ *1
BAGFEDC, 7/ *6
... and so on.
*You can also call it 7 rule, if you do not count origin/ destination note, or only count steps, ie. number of moves through scale.
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I don’t think that I was clear about my theory of ninths.
C to E is a major 3rd.
E to C is a minor 6th.
3 plus 6 equals 9.
An inverted third will always be a sixth and vice versa. This same logic applies to 4’s and 5’ and to 2’s and 7’s.
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Right. Yet it tunes, the root movement tends to follow the most common cycle. It's really good to know that cold. Originally Posted by TOMMO
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Recorded this clip today of exercise 2.2 playing the triads and extensions up and down through all 12 keys. Editing took me longer than recording - have to get more familiar with my video editing software....
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Nice! I'll have to make a video today too. As for editing, my idea of it is lopping off the beginning or the end, nothing else. ;o) Originally Posted by TOMMO
What kind of software do you use? I just 'trim' in VLC.
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Thanks Mark. I'm using DaVinci Resolve (freeware) - actually way too complex for what my needs are right now. I'm only fading in and out so far (you can do that for video and audio independently) plus raising the audio level to where it needs to be.
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Today's offering: Exercise 2.3 "Elle":
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Nice work, Tommo. A really sweet tone and an equally sweet improv. You navigate the changes well and there were some really nice lines running across those changes. Well done!
Derek
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Cheers Derek - just wish I could get rid of that "red light fever" Originally Posted by digger
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I tried making a video of exercise 2.2 this morning. No improv, no creativity, just playing it all the way through without looking at the book or making a mistake. It did not go well. I'll have to slow this down more and gut it out.
Switched to making videos for the Patterns For Jazz group. That worked out better.
But I like the Fewell material (though I don't care for the tune "Elle"). It's well worth learning, I think.
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I'm the same! Inspired by your video I thought I'd jump ahead to Elle (not really nailed the shapes to my satisfaction yet) but as soon as the first change (Am to Ebm) occurred I was lost! Back to the drawing board Originally Posted by TOMMO
Cheers Derek - just wish I could get rid of that "red light fever"
Although, what I then did was to actually write out the Amin7 shape on a piece of paper in black ink, and superimpose the Ebmin7 shape on top in red, and then I could see all the choices I had at that single moment in time.
The change from Ebm to Dm is easy - just slide down a fret (as is Bbm to Am). And then, having got this far, I realised that Dm7 to Bb7 was just down a string and up a fret... Not sure that this is the recommended way to learn these things but hopefully it'll kick start things.
Regards
Derek
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Slow is good! Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
I kind of agree re. Elle - and also the previous exercise. The melodies aren't overly inspiring, but looking at what's ahead in the book is really exciting, and I think we just have to trust in the journey. I listened to a couple of GF videos on YouTube and again, it shows how exciting this methodology will be. We just have to do these "simple" exercises to start with.
Cheers
Derek
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When I first worked through the book I went back and changed "Elle" to a series of II - V - Is to practice the according lines over it that come later in the book. It's a simple tune but remember it's for the beginner and the chord changes are obviously some kind of challenge....
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Played it straight using the recommended fingerings from exercise 2.1. Backing track is via Band In A Box at 115 bpm with a click track in 3/4 time. Recording yourself is a humbling act...
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