Intro to Jazz Guitar Soloing (Reissue): Section 1

Hello everyone! Let's see if we can learn something!

Let's start by tackling the Introduction and Chapters 1-3 in this section. There are instructions in there to read chapters 26-28 and the conclusion as well. It's light reading and gives us some insight to where we're headed.

Note that a section isn't necessarily a week long like some study groups. We'll work on it until it seems that most of us are ready to move on. I know some folks are still waiting on their books so we'll start slow and won't leave those folks behind.

The intro focuses on the 5 patterns of the major scale and the 5 patterns of the minor scale. Let's discuss where everyone is with this to start with. I've deliberately worked to learn one big pattern rather than positions, so I'll need to start thinking of the smaller patterns.

I doubt we need to spend much time with this material, but if anyone does need some extra time or help with these patterns, please mention that and we can adjust accordingly. Practicing this stuff won't hurt anyone, no matter how advanced they may be.

Chapter 1 gives a few examples of the difference between key center soloing and chord tone soloing. Again, I expect those differences are what brought us here, so this chapter probably won't take much time for the purposes of this group.

Chapters 2 and 3 get into the meat of the book and involve organizing arpeggios within the 5 patterns. This will be a little more challenging, but that's why we're here. I think these chapters are where we'll get into posting some videos.

So let's hear where everyone is with their scale patterns to start with and share some input (help me out) on speed and goals for the group. I would prefer group decisions on that stuff.

-Ben

Well, I did say we would start slow...

I spent some time yesterday and this morning working on the positions. As I said, up until now I've focused on learning the one big pattern instead of the 5 (or 7) smaller ones. It's a little awkward, but I can get used to it.

I've also focused on arpeggios in major pattern 1, as shown on page 7. I'm not sure if the pattern numbers are standardized or not, but that's not what I would have expected to be 1. What the author calls pattern 4 would seem like it should be 1.

I'll need to keep working on these arps for a bit to get them under my fingers.

Anyone else out there?

I learned those patterns as CAGED. So the 1st one he has us working on is the C pattern of CAGED. Would a rose by any other name still smell as sweet.

True...it's hard to get much sweeter than stacked thirds.

I never studied the CAGED thing directly but I see those chord shapes in the big pattern. I suppose starting on C makes sense in that respect.

As Morroben suggested, I'm listing 10 songs for repertoire.

Goodbye Pork Pie Hat
Blue Monk
Straight No Chaser
Blue Bossa
And I Love Her
500 Miles HIgh
All Blues
Topsy
Autumn Leaves
How Insensitive
Bright Size Life
Cannonball Shuffle

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Originally Posted by morroben

I'm not sure if the pattern numbers are standardized or not,

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I don't think so. Other people use different designations for them.

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Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher

I don't think so. Other people use different designations for them.

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I like Jimmy Bruno's way. (Mind you, he HATES the term CAGED and wants nothing to do with it.) He calls them the "five fingerings" and each is named for the lowest note in the position / fingering (which will be on the low E string even if the root is on the A string).

Thus, the fingering of C with the root on the 3rd string of the A string is called 5 because the lowest note in the position is G, the 5th of C.

May sound odd at first but grows on you. ;o)

The numbers are 5 (G in the key of C), 6 (A in the key of C) 7 (B in the key of C) 2 (D in the key of C) and 3 (E in the key of C.)

The same pattern repeats in all keys, though the fingering nearest the nut changes. So if C starts on fingering 5, it goes from there to 6, 7, 2, and 3.
G starts on fingering 7, then 2, 3, 5, and 6.
And so on.

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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

May sound odd at first but grows on you. ;o)

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It does sound odd. I'll have to read through that again with a guitar in my hands.

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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

Thus, the fingering of C with the root on the 3rd fret of the A string is called 5 because the lowest note in the position is G, the 5th of C.

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So you would be playing that C with your middle finger to end up with the 5 as the lowest note in the position?

As opposed to the author's #1, where you would be playing that same C with your pinky? In that case the lowest note would be the 3rd (E)?

So the author's #1 is Jimmy Bruno's 3?

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Originally Posted by fep

As Morroben suggested, I'm listing 10 songs for repertoire.

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Great list, Frank!

I have a notebook of all the jazz tunes that I know relatively well. There are only 10 songs in that notebook, but three of them are on your list. Blue Monk, Blue Bossa, and Autumn Leaves. It's interesting what different people start with when it comes to standards. I think Autumn Leaves was the first lead sheet my teacher gave me. It's a great practice tune.

Also interesting what people don't start with. I feel like by now I should know There Will Never Be Another You, Stella, etc, but I don't.

Also cool that you included a Beatles tune. I think I'm going to have a Wailers tune on my list.

I went ahead and did a video of playing pentatonic scale over that progression. His instruction, play it and then listen to the track without the baking chords. Can you hear the changes? Sure enough you can't.

On the video, 1st with a backing track and right after without the backing track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5v9...ature=youtu.be

OK, just tried the patterns on P7 after reading the other chapters mentioned. Must be my copy but the print is light and I had to get up close to read those positions. Anyway, felt rather rusty.....nothing I can't follow as I likely had a few of those under my fingers but since I wanted to break out of C, I used F as my root and worked through the 7 shapes intentionally and slowly. Main slow point for me is the alternate picking which Elliot insists on...it's been a perennial weakness so I am addressing it here and using another method just for that (the Conti Precision technique). I have drills to do daily it seems...no bad thing. No 'metromoaning' for me just yet but will get around to it this week as book suggests. Ah, discipline.

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Originally Posted by morroben

Great list, Frank!

I have a notebook of all the jazz tunes that I know relatively well. There are only 10 songs in that notebook, but three of them are on your list. Blue Monk, Blue Bossa, and Autumn Leaves. It's interesting what different people start with when it comes to standards. I think Autumn Leaves was the first lead sheet my teacher gave me. It's a great practice tune.

Also interesting what people don't start with. I feel like by now I should know There Will Never Be Another You, Stella, etc, but I don't.

Also cool that you included a Beatles tune. I think I'm going to have a Wailers tune on my list.

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Truth be told, I've played most of the tunes on the list. I think it's time for a start over for repertoire as I haven't played most of those tunes for many years.

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Originally Posted by morroben

It does sound odd. I'll have to read through that again with a guitar in my hands.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyfKsKGHa9w

A short video on Jimmy Bruno's "five fingerings" (which are the same as "CAGED" fingerings but he hates that term.)

It may seem awkward at first but I find it much more useful than naming them "C" and "A" etc.

After spending some time thrilling and delighting my family with pentatonic noodling, I've now spent a couple of days thrilling and delighting them with arpeggio practice.

I learned the CAGED fingerings as a teenager so I've been quite familiar with these scale positions for some time. However, I haven't spent a lot of time approaching them in terms of arpeggios, so Ch 2 has been a nice challenge, and a different way of thinking after focusing on the minor conversion thing (a la Martino and Fewell) for the past couple of years.

Here is a quick first take of where I am at with Ch 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KugDtM0OB8&feature=youtu.be

I'll probably start digging into the minor ones (Ch 3) soon.

I have taken the book out this morning and did a bit of arpeggio practice with that progression that he suggested with a metronome. I may be able to do a video over the weekend. My fingers kind of remembered these arpeggios (except the half diminished that I rarely need these days) but overall it was a bit rusty. I would also consider doing the triads in addition to the 7-arpeggios. I personally don't care about any specific fingering or numbering system.

Great stuff guys!

Mark, that video explained it well. I could see getting used to that numbering system. And I would agree that CAGED never really made sense to me. I guess I never got so married to my cowboy chords to use them as reference shapes. And once you move the C shape, it's not C anymore.

Anyway, all the numbering and CAGED stuff is semantics. Just find what works best for you.

I practiced the arpeggios for a bit yesterday and am about to have another little practice session. My folks are in town through today so my schedule is all messed up.

While I know my one big pattern of the major scale, my knowledge of the arpeggios within there needs a lot of work. I'll make a video later in the week to show where I'm at. I'm definitely not as smooth with them as Jay.

-Ben

I have been revisiting one of the ii-V7-I exercises and this time around, I actually feel as though I am locked in a groundhog day scenario. I am actually developing a contempt for this cycle.

To help fight boredom, I am practicing different sequences. It also seems to help me remember the shape because I have to change my finger technique, such as rolling the finger over adjacent strings - plus, I love sequences.

Here is my video ... it was fun to do but I must admit that I am fairly frustrated how rusty this practice routine felt. Struggles all the way through from timing to technique to remembering the patterns. I'm sure it'll come back with more practice but as AlsoRan said - it is a fight against boredom. For some reason the previous efforts stopped at the point in the book where it should become fun and one plays actual tunes. Maybe this time we'll manage :-)

I was trying to follow in Fep's lead and started by key center improvising over the chord sequence that Elliot gives us on page 5 and then removed the backing track. Without the backing track I can still hear some of the changes, but a bit later in the sequence it is lost. the harmonized major scale arpeggios I tried in four positions - the assignment was clean alternate picking - it failed. These days, I rarely pick alternate but rather economy or gypsy (the more, the more acoustic the guitar is) - this was neither :-(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyYx68SmD_k


I found an old video which was an impromptu arpeggio study on All of me with crappy camera audio ... guess my arpeggio skills were much better then. IN all fairness the tele is much easier to play than this acoustic archtop that is always fighting me but I guess I couldn't do this presently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPWfyd5csFI

Great post Frank67 and slick video. The second video really shows how fluid you became when you spent a lot of time practicing this.

Like you I want to apply this to other styles of music I'm not that interested in jazz. I aspire to write songs and record tunes... Mark Knopfler, yeah just like that :redface-new: (for those that don't follow Mark Knopfler, he's continued to write songs, has a bunch of albums, and a real good youtube channel. One of my favorites.)

That was great Frank67! Really smooth...my early attempts are very choppy.

Funny how we all seem to dig Mark Knopfler. He was one of my earliest influences and I still love his stuff. He was also one of my inspirations for dropping the pick altogether.

I definitely love jazz, and my goal with this is to be able to play jazz better, but I'm not a purist and I love a lot of other genres too.

Question...does the book start working diagonally with multiple patterns later on, like in the 'All of Me' video? Or was that extracurricular? I hope the book does have us start moving around the neck more.

Back to the practice. Need to work on this stuff and I have my weekly lesson today.

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Originally Posted by morroben

Question...does the book start working diagonally with multiple patterns later on, like in the 'All of Me' video? Or was that extracurricular? I hope the book does have us start moving around the neck more.

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I can't remember, my guess is that was extracurricular. Once we got all the positions practiced it seemed like a logical next step. A lot (all?) of us did that.

Thanks so much morroben and fep!

It was fun doing it. I was swearing and cursing a bit that it wasn‘t better than it is, but it is a motivation to practice again. I found the old videos on „Blue Bossa“, „Round midnight“ and „The nearness of you“ and that is motivation to get back in shape and hopefully take it a step further so that it feels more natural and less constructed. Big dream I guess ....

Knopfler is one of my all time musical heroes. I just saw him in concert two weeks ago. He is still going strong and has gorgeous tone. The mix wasn‘t good at the concert with the guitar being too loud (never thought I would say that, ha ha). But his playing was great. I feel he got jazzier with time and there was a fair bit of inside/outside in his soloing but in a very tasty way.

With both Gilmour and Knopfler (and many others) one so sees the arpeggio/chord tone approach and I always feel that sets them apart from the generic noodlers. They will both play pentatonics, but then at the right moment play a few tasty arpeggios and that elevates their solos very much IMHO.

Anyways, I did not want to digress. .... yes, the diagonal arpeggios in the second clip were extracurricular. I personally often find it easier to change position than to deal with awkward fingerings. For example, the Cmajor 7 arp starting on the A string on fret 3 has an awkward fingering if one stays in that position. The structure is much easier and more logical with shifting, because then one always does two notes per string with a half step on one and three half steps on the next. That is always how I would play in practice and rather than stay in position.

I worked through a lot of this book several years ago. This is my long-winded take on the connecting game etc. Just my 2c...
Thoughts on Joe Elliott's connecting game - YouTube
At 11:59, "in one position" should be "in one direction"... Sorry....

Thanks for the video and advice, Matt. I watched it last night on my phone but I can't type on that thing...I missed that skill set by one generation.

I read ahead in the book a bit to see the instructions for the random connecting game that you mentioned. It does seem a bit strange. I'm not sure I've ever seen another instance of randomness being encouraged in music education. My teacher is adamant about making everything as musical as you can...even mind-numbing exercises.

Maybe Elliot is just trying to show the beginner that any of those arpeggio notes will work so they can focus on the changes. For someone that's never tried to make the mental switch from chord to chord, I can see how it might be a helpful exercise for a day or two. Any chord tone works, so you're focused only on making that mental switch. That's a big hurdle for a lot of people.

I don't think I would ever practice like that. Your suggestion of isolating each iteration sounds like solid advice. And your 3-7 and 7-3 comment is spot on. I'll work on that stuff while the Dodgers game is on, as per your suggestion.

"It's good for what it's good for."
I think/hope that particular thing is what I need at the moment.

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Originally Posted by morroben

I read ahead in the book a bit to see the instructions for the random connecting game that you mentioned. It does seem a bit strange. I'm not sure I've ever seen another instance of randomness being encouraged in music education. My teacher is adamant about making everything as musical as you can...even mind-numbing exercises.

Maybe Elliot is just trying to show the beginner that any of those arpeggio notes will work so they can focus on the changes. For someone that's never tried to make the mental switch from chord to chord, I can see how it might be a helpful exercise for a day or two. Any chord tone works, so you're focused only on making that mental switch. That's a big hurdle for a lot of people.

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Yeah. To be clear, I'm not saying he's wrong or something. I just found that there was a quicker way to get to that second step for me personally.

When I started, it was basically two steps:
1. Learn the individual arpeggio patterns and then...
2. Combine them in the connecting game , transitioning wherever you happen to arrive at the end of the previous arpeggio.

Prior to my extra step approach, when I hit snags or got into a mental fog, I'd basically just take things back to step one, slow down to a crawl, state the pattern over, take a break for a while etc etc. My extra thing eventually just gave me an earlier and easier intervention.

I'd look at my exercise as kind of a step 1A type exercise - a kind of an in-between step. For me personally, I save time in the long run if I stop for a short period of time and sharpen the saw. I do this type of thing with a lot of things, and it's really just personal preference. Out may not be for most people.

Elliott's eventual goal with the connecting game is a very good one. One of the best things I ever learned.

Matt, Great vibe on your videos, you've become very comfortable in front of the camera. Very conversational, like we're in the room together chatting.

Myself, I try to do something like that and fumble with my words all over the place. I then just press delete.:redface-new:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by morroben

Thanks for the video and advice, Matt. I watched it last night on my phone but I can't type on that thing...I missed that skill set by one generation.

I read ahead in the book a bit to see the instructions for the random connecting game that you mentioned. It does seem a bit strange. I'm not sure I've ever seen another instance of randomness being encouraged in music education. My teacher is adamant about making everything as musical as you can...even mind-numbing exercises.

Maybe Elliot is just trying to show the beginner that any of those arpeggio notes will work so they can focus on the changes. For someone that's never tried to make the mental switch from chord to chord, I can see how it might be a helpful exercise for a day or two. Any chord tone works, so you're focused only on making that mental switch. That's a big hurdle for a lot of people.

I don't think I would ever practice like that. Your suggestion of isolating each iteration sounds like solid advice. And your 3-7 and 7-3 comment is spot on. I'll work on that stuff while the Dodgers game is on, as per your suggestion.

"It's good for what it's good for."
I think/hope that particular thing is what I need at the moment.

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I think that version of the exercise is in the same spirit as an exercise taught by Scott Henderson designed to get you playing through chords rather than on top of each chord. For Henderson's exercise you play either ascending or descending over a set of changes. You start with one note per chord and graduate to two notes per chord and four notes per chord. You have to keep the line moving in the same direction over the changes. The objective is to not break a line off in the middle just because the chord changed and instead alter the line as as needed and continue forward.

In Elliott's case, I think the idea is if you're ascending one chord's arpeggio you keep the line ascending into the next chords arpeggio rather than start over because it's a new chord. The worst case scenario would be thinking you have to stop what you're doing on the first chord and start the next chord on the root of the arpeggio.

.

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Originally Posted by fep

Matt, Great vibe on your videos, you've become very comfortable in front of the camera. Very conversational, like we're in the room together chatting.

Myself, I try to do something like that and fumble with my words all over the place. I then just press delete.:redface-new:

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Thanks, Frank. I've tried the polished presentation thing and can't make it work. I have to just talk and then edit where necessary. I appreciate the kind words.

I think the one note per chord, then two, then three etc. is a good idea. The Elliot thing is much harder to do. It makes perfect sense - he really doesn‘t want us to stop to think of the next chord. It seems to me that intermediate steps to get there are helpful. I noticed today on my way to work that for chapters 1-3 Elliot’s Demo recording also has a break between individual arpeggios. Hence, a slightly less rigorous practice routine may still be worthwhile.

Quick question -- am slowly making progress on the Major arpeggios and can play with relatively slow 60bpm metronome as he suggests starting, so will start to work that speed up with the metronome. If I keep the shapes in front of me on the stand, no problem, I can do this. If I close the book, my memory is not there yet and I fumble in a few places. Have you all internalized those arpeggio shapes enough to play through accurately without looking or are you keeping the page open?

Hey Odel, I have internalized those major arps in position 1 to the point that I don't need to look at the book, but it took me a few days to get there. You'll get it. If it was easy, everyone would do it.

I'm going to start learning the position 1 minor shapes today, while continuing to drill the major shapes.

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Originally Posted by odel

Quick question -- am slowly making progress on the Major arpeggios and can play with relatively slow 60bpm metronome as he suggests starting, so will start to work that speed up with the metronome. If I keep the shapes in front of me on the stand, no problem, I can do this. If I close the book, my memory is not there yet and I fumble in a few places. Have you all internalized those arpeggio shapes enough to play through accurately without looking or are you keeping the page open?

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I learned 7th chord arpeggios in seven positions decades ago, so it's not new material for me. I've never kept all of them up to working level, though. Coming from a rock background, I never found much use for 7th chord arpeggios other than a few favorite licks in a few favorite fingerings. Like others, my min7b5 shapes are very rusty. I have to stop and think about it for a second before remembering the shape.

.

Hey everyone, just checking in. I'm still practicing away at position 1 major and minor arps.

It's a good feeling when it gets into the muscle memory and I realize I'm thinking about something else but my fingers are still going.

Where's everyone else at with this? Should we take some more time drilling these arpeggios or move on to chapters 4 and 5? I think chapter 5 is where it's going to start getting more fun.

Also, side question, what do you guys use for video editing? I need to sync up video from my phone and audio recorded through my interface. I thought I did it in Reaper once a while ago, but I can't seem to make it work now.

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Originally Posted by morroben

Hey everyone, just checking in. I'm still practicing away at position 1 major and minor arps.

It's a good feeling when it gets into the muscle memory and I realize I'm thinking about something else but my fingers are still going.

Where's everyone else at with this? Should we take some more time drilling these arpeggios or move on to chapters 4 and 5? I think chapter 5 is where it's going to start getting more fun.

Also, side question, what do you guys use for video editing? I need to sync up video from my phone and audio recorded through my interface. I thought I did it in Reaper once a while ago, but I can't seem to make it work now.

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I've been using Shotcut on Windows 7:

Shotcut - Home

.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by morroben

Hey everyone, just checking in. I'm still practicing away at position 1 major and arps.

It's a good feeling when it gets into the muscle memory and I realize I'm thinking about something else but my fingers are still going.

Where's everyone else at with this? Should we take some more time drilling these arpeggios or move on to chapters 4 and 5? I think chapter 5 is where it's going to start getting more fun.

Also, side question, what do you guys use for video editing? I need to sync up video from my phone and audio recorded through my interface. I thought I did it in Reaper once a while ago, but I can't seem to make it work now.

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I have been practicing more arpeggios, but mostly triads over a rock backing track. Wouldn‘t mind to do this a bit more.

My my video workflow is:
- Export Band in a box Audio into Garageband
- Record guitar track. The easiest to go via a direct amp sim device such as the Tech21 FlyRig or a Kemper into GarageBand since then there is no bleeding or the backing track into the microphone. But I am also recording with microphones (Sennheiser e906) in front of amps. Ideally one then has the backing track playing in headphones but I am not a fan of that as the cables invariably are in the way.
- I record the video in front of a greenscreen. This is fun and quick to set up.
- I first start the video recording and then the audio and give it three audible bumps on the guitar in order to have alignment point for he audio later.
- I import the video into GarageBand and align the audio traces of the video and the guitar recording.
Then mute or delete the video audio and export everything to disk
- Edit the video with Finalcut (but iMovie is just as well). Removing the greenscren and replacing it by some other background takes just a few clicks.

This is way more than what is necessary of course. I just started to have fun editing and playing with video over the years and the tools that are readily available are easy to use an fun to play with. Text and graphics ar usually done with Keynote and then exported as JPG‘s into Finalcut.

The good news is that once you have chapter 2 under your fingers, you've almost got chapter 3 as well. The forms are the same apart from a dom7 subbed in for the V.

Here's a quick schwing of where I am with chapter 3. Every time you catch yourself looking at my crotch, you have to take a tequila shot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7-33Y1UOGs&feature=youtu.be

I clearly am not paying attention as I go through life sufficiently - I started on the minor shapes (Chap 3) and of course had a 'duh' moment when I realized these were not new patterns really but a series of identical (mostly) just reflecting the new chord position. Made me go back and write out the diatonic major minor chord progressions so I could see this clearly (and it's not as if I have never been told this, I just never internalized it). So, plus one for this method, it might be old hat to some of you but it's given me my first 'aha' moment.

So as to the 'where are we' on this...still plugging through Chap 2 and 3 daily...not at the speed of some of you but am better than I was a week ago....feels like progress. I want to keep on doing this for another week but that's me...

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Originally Posted by Frank67

I have been practicing more arpeggios, but mostly triads over a rock backing track. Wouldn‘t mind to do this a bit more.

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Originally Posted by odel

I want to keep on doing this for another week but that's me...

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Then that's the plan. We'll do another week of these position 1 arpeggios and get ourselves better prepared for the connecting game in chapter 5.

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Originally Posted by Jehu

The good news is that once you have chapter 2 under your fingers, you've almost got chapter 3 as well. The forms are the same apart from a dom7 subbed in for the V.

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And just in case anyone doesn't realize it, this is true when we move to other positions as well. For example, the major 7 arpeggio that we're using for the IV chord in position 1 will become the arp for the I chord in position 4. It's rearranging, not relearning. So if five positions seems daunting, maybe that will make it slightly less so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frank67

I have been practicing more arpeggios, but mostly triads over a rock backing track. Wouldn‘t mind to do this a bit more.

My my video workflow is:
- Export Band in a box Audio into Garageband
- Record guitar track. The easiest to go via a direct amp sim device such as the Tech21 FlyRig or a Kemper into GarageBand since then there is no bleeding or the backing track into the microphone. But I am also recording with microphones (Sennheiser e906) in front of amps. Ideally one then has the backing track playing in headphones but I am not a fan of that as the cables invariably are in the way.
- I record the video in front of a greenscreen. This is fun and quick to set up.
- I first start the video recording and then the audio and give it three audible bumps on the guitar in order to have alignment point for he audio later.
- I import the video into GarageBand and align the audio traces of the video and the guitar recording.
Then mute or delete the video audio and export everything to disk
- Edit the video with Finalcut (but iMovie is just as well). Removing the greenscren and replacing it by some other background takes just a few clicks.

This is way more than what is necessary of course. I just started to have fun editing and playing with video over the years and the tools that are readily available are easy to use an fun to play with. Text and graphics ar usually done with Keynote and then exported as JPG‘s into Finalcut.

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Man, you guys are full of ideas! I want to experiment with that green screen you talked about. Could be lots of fun.

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Originally Posted by AlsoRan

Man, you guys are full of ideas! I want to experiment with that green screen you talked about. Could be lots of fun.

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Hey AlsoRan,

this is the one I am using:

Green Screen | elgato.com

Setup time is 20 or so seconds. It is so much fun! Before that I used more complicated setups with the result that I never did it. This one is so easy that the barrier is close to zero.

happy practicing everybody!

cheers
Frank

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frank67

- I record the video in front of a greenscreen. This is fun and quick to set up.

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Hmm, that does sound fun. So, I guess that screen is wide enough? And, I guess I could put myself onstage in front of a bunch of Marshall Stacks with that green screen? Maybe have David Lee Roth running around in the background? While I'm sitting near the pool at the Playboy Mansion?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fep

Hmm, that does sound fun. So, I guess that screen is wide enough? And, I guess I could put myself onstage in front of a bunch of Marshall Stacks with that green screen? Maybe have David Lee Roth running around in the background? While I'm sitting near the pool at the Playboy Mansion?

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Absolutely - great game plan!

Yes, that screen is just wide enough to cover a person plus guitar if you go close enough to the screen and don‘t move too wildly. The benefit is that it is so much more convenient to set up.

Here is a little toy thing that I did with it for my kids a while ago

https://youtu.be/NnTOnWs2MzA

But of course, you could also have a Terminator or Baywatch Clip playing in the background :rolleyes:

... but I did not mean to derail the thread ... back to practicing arpeggios.

I'm spending time on the arps, both major and minor which almost the same with the exception of the 3 chord of the major vs. the 5 chord in the relative minor. That is, D major you have the iii chord being F#m7 vs. the V chord of Bm being F#7.

The arps for me are a lot about picking technique, especially if I do the strict alternating picking. Troy Grady has done a super extensive study of picking technique on youtube and his site, maybe you've seen it. He talks a lot about the challenge of string skipping when playing to speed and has micro analyzed how some really fast pickers accomplish that. Playing arps with alternating picking is choke full of string skipping.

Take for example Dmaj7 in 3rd position (D note under your pinky, 5th fret, 5th string. D, F#, A, C#, the first 4 notes starting with a down stroke and alternating picking. You play the D, skip over the 4th string to then up pick the F# on the 4th string, skip over the 4th string to then down stroke on the A note on the third string, etc. How do you do this without creating a bunch of extra in and out of the strings motion? I think that extra motion is a speed killer.

I'm focusing on getting relaxed both mentally and my right hand physically and keeping an eye on the economy of motion of my right hand. I think for me, this is the key. I also have years ago adopted a right hand posture similar to Reg's (a forum member/contributer). Similar to the "Benson technique".

Yep those skips with alternate picking are my biggest problem here. Am also practicing the Conti Precision Exercises (though in truth I'm practicing only Exercise 1 for the second week so the plural is said with optimism more than accuracy as he demands you master each exercise before attempting the next one) and there's the same demand to strictly alternate over adjoining strings. As I do the Elliot major and minor arps, I notice that it's this alternate requirement that hangs me up the most. I feel I'm moving smoothly through the exercise but note that I've landed on the root with an up rather than downstroke and realize I've double-upped or double-downed on my picking at some point in a string change preceding it. So am forcing myself then to go back and repeat slowly until I get the alternate requirement met fully for each exercise. Man, this means undoing years of picking habits, no easy task, and trying to develop a form of picking that is intentional and controlled.

For picking technique, the Troy Grady online “seminars” are fabulous. I hate the shred metal style of playing, and his mannerisms are a bit odd, but I ended up getting all three videos. It absolutely TRANSFORMED my picking technique.

The existing seminars are all about traditional 3NPS and pentatonic scalar patterns, but I believe he is working on a cross-picking one. If he could do one as thorough and insightful on strumming and cross-picking as the first three, I would get it in a heartbeat.


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In honor of the moratorium on 335s,... not a 335 but a 335 type of guitar.

In my ongoing quest and schizophrenia of how to hold a pick (Mark knows what I'm talking about) I played the major using one grip and minor using a different grip. I'll name them after a couple of my favorites, a Benson grip, and then a Carlton grip.

I used this angle to see how much I jump in and out of the strings. All I can say is, yuck.

I like the tone I get with the Carlton grip better, it's also better for hybrid picking, pick harmonics, muting, and pinching notes. Benson grip seems more relaxed and I can play a little faster that way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul3nA2KtqMQ&feature=youtu.be

I'm still plugging away at these arps. I've been practicing every day, but the last few days have been short sessions.

We're doing a big front yard landscape job. I hired a crew to do the dirt work and pavers, but I'm doing all the woodwork (fences, gates, arbors) myself and it's taking most of my time.

It's also destroying my hands! I used to be a contractor/carpenter but decided to go back to school a couple of years ago to get a degree. My overall level of fitness and toughness has declined rapidly.

Redwood splinters and general soreness of the hands isn't helping my practice motivation, but I'm trying to stay disciplined.


How does everyone feel about moving on? Are we ready?

Also, I've been working on my list of 10 tunes...

Woodyn' You
I Want to Be Happy
Days of Wine and Roses
No Blues
It Hurts to Be Alone
Sunny Side of the Street
Mr PC
Cherokee
Joy Spring
Donna Lee (this may be beyond my ability?)

Yeah, I hear you on carpentry, woodwork, deck and fence building, etc. being tough on the ol' digits. But I do actually find that as long as you don't overdo it, some easy and relaxed exercises (like, oh, arpeggios!) can actually be therapeutic, stretching and loosening up the hands.

I'm happy to move on whenever others are. I've been chipping away at Ch 5 and making decent progress.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by morroben

I'm still plugging away at these arps. I've been practicing every day, but the last few days have been short sessions.

We're doing a big front yard landscape job. I hired a crew to do the dirt work and pavers, but I'm doing all the woodwork (fences, gates, arbors) myself and it's taking most of my time.

It's also destroying my hands! I used to be a contractor/carpenter but decided to go back to school a couple of years ago to get a degree. My overall level of fitness and toughness has declined rapidly.

Redwood splinters and general soreness of the hands isn't helping my practice motivation, but I'm trying to stay disciplined.


How does everyone feel about moving on? Are we ready?

Also, I've been working on my list of 10 tunes...

Woodyn' You
I Want to Be Happy
Days of Wine and Roses
No Blues
It Hurts to Be Alone
Sunny Side of the Street
Mr PC
Cherokee
Joy Spring
Donna Lee (this may be beyond my ability?)

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I am shadowing this group with my own revisit of this course. I would like to bring up one, for lack of a better word "gripe." The gripe is more my problem and its that when I first started learning arpeggios long ago, and trying to improvise, I would do so without using extensions such as a b9 or a 13th.

This really makes a difference on what I think sounds like Jazz and what does not. I need to make sure I work in those extensions when I improvise with these arpeggios.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AlsoRan

I am shadowing this group with my own revisit of this course. I would like to bring up one, for lack of a better word "gripe." The gripe is more my problem and its that when I first started learning arpeggios long ago, and trying to improvise, I would do so without using extensions such as a b9 or a 13th.

This really makes a difference on what I think sounds like Jazz and what does not. I need to make sure I work in those extensions when I improvise with these arpeggios.

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Yes, and the altered scale includes the #5, b5, b9, and #9 and is introduced in the first half of the book. Also, in lick writing you can take any liberties you want and add those notes.