Official Barry Harris Thread

[joe2758]

ooohhhhhhh I see. Got it.

[joe2758]

There's a cool BH exercise where you play BCE, C#DF etc but in eigth notes. Probably my favorite exercise.

[joe2758]

If I understand correctly you would put it
B C E C#
D F D# E
G E F A

[Navdeep_Singh]

There's a cool BH exercise where you play BCE, C#DF etc but in eigth notes. Probably my favorite exercise.

Check out this excellent class on Compound note groupings by Adam Rogers. This reminds me that I need to re-review it as well.

Adam Rogers - Guitar Lesson (3) - My Music Masterclass

[Navdeep_Singh]

This is a good small exercise using the BH dom7 scales and chords using the B section of Rhythm Changes. How to generate ideas for lines

[GuyBoden]

Anyone have any thoughts about using the Barry Harris 'Expanded Extra Note Rules'?

Workshop Vol2, Chapter 1, Expanded ‘Extra Note Rules’
The Barry Harris Workshop Video Part 2 – Howard Rees' Jazz Workshops

[Christian Miller]

Harmonizing the scale in triads is BH 101. Same with harmonizing in thirds or in 7th chords. Three note groupings are usually felt in groups of 3, often as triplets. Grouping 3 note triads into 4 means we can feel the triads as quarter notes-8th notes, or double time (16th notes).

Adam Rogers has a great class on this subject, taking odd note groupings (1,3, 5, etc) and grouping them in even note groupings. Triplets can be felt in duple or multiples of 2.

The three is fundamental ‘doo wa doo wa doo wa’; but groupings of five also have a long history in jazz. Sorry to video post, but I discuss a hip django line that uses this idea in this old vid:

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[Navdeep_Singh]

Barry Harris Jazz guitar Summit: Adam Levy interviews Jens Larsen, Chris Parks, Thomas Echols

[AllanAllen]

Harmony question

If there are chord scales of
inversion diminished inversion diminished inversion diminished inversion diminished For each type of chord. And you can play the inversion or corresponding Diminished For said chord.

What’s stopping one from running enough mental gymnastics to reduce a tune to a series of diminished chords?

Autumn leaves goes from

| C- | F7 | Bb | Eb |

to something like

| D° | E° | B° | D° |

What did I screw up in my logic?

[pamosmusic]

Harmony question

If there are chord scales of
inversion diminished inversion diminished inversion diminished inversion diminished For each type of chord. And you can play the inversion or corresponding Diminished For said chord.

What’s stopping one from running enough mental gymnastics to reduce a tune to a series of diminished chords?

Autumn leaves goes from

| C- | F7 | Bb | Eb |

to something like

| D° | E° | B° | D° |

What did I screw up in my logic?

The diminished chords aren’t the harmony, they’re sort of the “off” side of the harmony. So the diminished chords are the tension flavor inside of each of those harmonies, but you have no actual harmony.

It’s like if you learned about side-slipping and only played chords a half step away from the home chords and never played the home chords themselves

[Tal_175]

Harmony question

If there are chord scales of
inversion diminished inversion diminished inversion diminished inversion diminished For each type of chord. And you can play the inversion or corresponding Diminished For said chord.

What’s stopping one from running enough mental gymnastics to reduce a tune to a series of diminished chords?

Autumn leaves goes from

| C- | F7 | Bb | Eb |

to something like

| D° | E° | B° | D° |

What did I screw up in my logic?

That would be like substituting every chord of a tune with its dominant. Those diminishes act like dominant passing chords to create a movement inside a chord.

[joe2758]

Unless the successive chords share a diminished in some way, you should return to the first before going to the second. I.e. I don't think it is good to play F6 Edim C6, better to F6 Edim F6 C6 as an example. As where C6 Bdim F6 works.

[Mick-7]

Harmony question

If there are chord scales of
inversion diminished inversion diminished inversion diminished inversion diminished For each type of chord. And you can play the inversion or corresponding Diminished For said chord.

What’s stopping one from running enough mental gymnastics to reduce a tune to a series of diminished chords?

Autumn leaves goes from

| C- | F7 | Bb | Eb |

to something like

| D° | E° | B° | D° |

What did I screw up in my logic?

All the chords in the diminished scale are altered so you won't find the tonic or subdominant major chords in it....

The IIm7-V7-I substitute could be: Cm7b5/ F7b9/ Dm7 (from C dim. scale) - not sure what you'd do for the IV chord though, maybe some sort of G7(alt) voicing. But another problem is that dim. chords would not match the melody.

You can reharmonize a tune almost entirely with one harmonic/melodic minor scale though, I started experimenting with that with this tune. The Bb7 is the only chord with a note (Ab) outside of the scales - well, there's a G13b9 too but I could use a straight G13 instead (actually, G13 sounds better). The combined D Harmonic/Melodic scale is: D-E-F-G-A-Bb-B-C#.

[pamosmusic]

All the chords in the diminished scale are altered so you won't find the tonic or subdominant major chords in it....

sixth diminished scale =\= diminished scale

[Mick-7]

sixth diminished scale =\= diminished scale

I actually don't know what the "6th diminished" scale is, is it equivalent to a whole/half step diminished scale?

[Christian Miller]

I actually don't know what the "6th diminished" scale is, is it equivalent to a half/whole step or whole/half step diminished scale?

No it’s not

Type into a search there’s like a zillion
videos etc


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[Christian Miller]

Just checked - even AI gets it decently right which goes to show how much has been written on the subject


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[Mick-7]

Just checked - even AI gets it decently right which goes to show how much has been written on the subject.

And there's a minor version of it that's equivalent to the combined harmonic/melodic minor scale I mentioned? - i.e., the major dim. 6th scale with a b3rd.

[pamosmusic]

And there's a minor version of it that's equivalent to the combined harmonic/melodic minor scale I mentioned? - i.e., the major dim. 6th scale with a b3rd.

Yep

It would be the m6 diminished scale, made from the minor ...

C Eb G A

and it's dominant function diminished ...

D F Ab B

Nothing new under the sun, cat.

[Mick-7]

Yep

It would be the m6 diminished scale, made from the minor ...

C Eb G A

and it's dominant function diminished ...

D F Ab B

Nothing new under the sun, cat.

o.k., it has only one note different than the diminished scale then:

D harmelodic (minor dim. 6th) = D-E-F-G-A-Bb-B-C#

D Diminished = D-E-F-G-Ab-Bb-B-C#

[AllanAllen]

The diminished chords aren’t the harmony, they’re sort of the “off” side of the harmony. So the diminished chords are the tension flavor inside of each of those harmonies, but you have no actual harmony.

It’s like if you learned about side-slipping and only played chords a half step away from the home chords and never played the home chords themselves

This sidestepping example helps me to understand. If I’m Charleston comping Autumn Leaves, the second chord would be the diminished leading to the next chord?

| Cm7 Eb° | G7 …

Is that right?

[Mick-7]

This sidestepping example helps me to understand. If I’m Charleston comping Autumn Leaves, the second chord would be the diminished leading to the next chord?

| Cm7 Eb° | G7 …

Is that right?

Autumn Leaves would be more like: Cm7 > F7b9 (Ebo7) > Dm7 > G7.

But Ebo7 could also be: D7b9/Ab7b9 (V7 of V7) > G7 (V7).

[pamosmusic]

This sidestepping example helps me to understand. If I’m Charleston comping Autumn Leaves, the second chord would be the diminished leading to the next chord?

| Cm7 Eb° | G7 …

Is that right?

You got the movement right if those are the chords but remember the next chord is F7 … so | Cm7 Edim7 | F7

Also there are lots of ways to voice the F7 that aren’t just straight F7, which makes it really cool.

Autumn Leaves would be more like: Cm7 > F7b9 (Ebo7) > Dm7 > G7.

But Ebo7 could also be: D7b9/Ab7b9 (V7 of V7) > G7 (V7).

Mick, you have already said you don’t know what this stuff is so what are we doing here man?

[Christian Miller]

Apologies if I’m being very boring and obvious - but, one way of thinking about these scales is it’s the target chord and its V7(b9) folded into one scale.

In fact this is also true of harmonic minor and major, it’s just that in those cases the I chord is a just a triad, not a 6th chord.


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[Mick-7]

Mick, you have already said you don’t know what this stuff is so what are we doing here man?

I realize this is a Barry Harris oriented thread but is his use of diminished chords different than the usual jazz harmony approach?