Official Barry Harris Thread

[NSJ]

I think with BH’s fundamental ideas of ‘music as movement’, intellectually understanding something doesn’t mean anything, it doesn’t mean you actually know it. You know it when you can do it. And when you do something automatically, When you can internalize and practice all of these movements, which are, essentially, grips, the muscle memory can come forth freely, whiteout thinking. I spend a lot time working on songs with these sort of movements.

Muscle memory is the pre-requisite for freedom.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

Interesting how the tritone's minor resolves almost fully chromatically either up into the major 6th chord or down into the "sixth on the fifth" (the underlying basic change is Db7 to C):

rootless Db7 = Am6 ==> Am7 (= C6)

Abm6 = Fm7b5 ==> Em7 (= G6)

EDIT: In the first line it should of course say Abm6 to Am7. And rootless Db7/9.

[Christian Miller]

Typo there I think you meant Abm6

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

Typo there I think you meant Abm6

Of course.

And of course it works as chord voicings (any inversion; with some working better than others -- use your ears and taste) as well as as arpeggio lines, e.g. Abm6 arpeggio up (any inversion), Am7 down in the same range.

[NSJ]

There is so much musical mileage, so many possibilities, just playing, moving from and to, and borrowing, between the diminished and the two families of 4 dominants and 4 min6 chords

So many possibilities. It just hit me how liberating it is. This is musical moment of brothers and sisters, where they borrow clothes from each other on the playground, from the diminished wardrobe, it’s’ freedom of the most wonderful, playful order. . All built on such an elegant system that is immaculately and logically structured.

Sometimes, I think Why would you go anywhere else? This is enough.

[bediles]

Basic question here, I couldn't find it my forum searches but I'm sure its covered.

How do you harmonize a 13(or 6) on a II min 7 chord. It's the only one I couldn't figure out within the system. Typically this would be on a non strong beat and part a stepwise motion of a melody for songbook tunes.

Treat it as a V?

Cheers

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

Basic question here, I couldn't find it my forum searches but I'm sure its covered.

How do you harmonize a 13(or 6) on a II min 7 chord. It's the only one I couldn't figure out within the system. Typically this would be on a non strong beat and part a stepwise motion of a melody for songbook tunes.

Treat it as a V?

Cheers

It is difficult to answer such a question without context. Can you post the melody line in question?

[bediles]

Bar 26 of My Romance, for example. Melody A B quarter notes over a Dmin7 in C.

[pcjazz]

Bar 26 of My Romance, for example. Melody A B quarter notes over a Dmin7 in C.

I would likely play F6 into Dm6 there. Are you wondering about comping, harmonizing the melody or soloing?

[grahambop]

I had exactly the same problem when harmonising My Romance with BH chords. It seems Barry’s system doesn’t always fit this ‘dorian’ kind of melody very well, unless you change something.

To get round it you could harmonise the A note with a Dm7 (F6) and the B note with an Em7 (G6).

There is some useful discussion on this point in Randy Vincent’s Drop 2 book. He looks at tunes like Jeannine and Little Sunflower where the same kind of issue arises.

[bediles]

Are you wondering about comping, harmonizing the melody or soloing?

Just harmonizing the melody as the min7 rotation of the scale is distinctly Aeolian and there's not an obvious 'borrowing' to be done. I'd probably go with a dim7 on the B so some voices move when harmonizing the C in the next bar. Aux dim kinda thing, I guess.

[P4guitar]

If I understand you correctly, use: Dm -> G#dim -> Dm -> G#dim -> Bmb5...

Same thing: Dm -> Ddim -> Dm -> Ddim -> Bmb5...

[setemupjoe]

Over the Dmi7 I’d play the Ami7(C6)scale to get the Dorian sound you’re after.

Another example is the A section of Have you met Miss Jones. Bar 3 has an ascending scale line over Gmi7. I run Dmi7 with the E°7 to fit the chords under the melody.


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[Christian Miller]

Which is to say you are using the prevailing keys maj6 dim, which makes sense

personally I would avoid changing scale unless a secondary dominant has tonicised the chord in question.

[setemupjoe]

Yes, what I think Barry called Playing the 6th on the 5th. In the OP’s example, playing the C6 over the F6.


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[bediles]

Thanks for the tips!

Also, I'm OK with the 6th dim scales not working in all harmonic scenarios. Using them and their accociated language at certain moments of a tune as opposed to for the entire harmonization seems to be how they're used in real applications.

[pcjazz]

Bar 26 of My Romance, for example. Melody A B quarter notes over a Dmin7 in C.

x x 3 5 5 5
x x 6 7 6 7
x x 7 9 8 8

[Navdeep_Singh]

The simplest way of expressing a minor ii-V7 (e.g, in Dm) is to play with the 4 m6 brothers and sisters associated with the iv or the tonic minor. In this case, the Gm6 and its three brothers and sisters that are a min3 or tritone up or below. (Gm6-Bbm6-Dbm6-Em6). Remember that he m6 brothers and sisters, built by moving a note from the dim chord up a half step, actually share the note that names it with the dim. (In this case, G dim, Bbdim, Dbdim, Edim).

That is probably the simplest way of expressing this formula.

[bediles]

Just collating last week's posts into a list of possibilities.

Harmonizing that pesky 6th degree on a IImin7 chord (melody 5, 6, 7, 1 quarter notes/crotchet). I'm thinking in drop 2 and not including sub R for 9 (Fmaj7/Dmin9) for simplicity:

1. Dmin7 1st inv / Dmin6 2nd inv / Dmin7 2nd inv / Dmin 7 3rd inv

2. Dmin 7 1st inv / Emin 7 / Dmin7 2nd inv / Dmin 7 3rd inv

3. Dmin 7 1st inv / Ddim7 2nd inv (Aux Dim) / Dmin7 2nd inv / Dmin 7 3rd inv

4. Dmin 7 1st inv / Ddim7 2nd inv / Amin7 (6th on 5th) / Dmin 7 3rd inv

5. Dmin 7 1st inv / C# m7b5 2nd inv (A9) / Dmin7 2nd inv / Dmin 7 3rd inv.

--This last one is not explicitly from the Fmaj6/dmin7 pitch collection but serves the same functional purpose.


Some of these create more of a ii chord sound throughout and others maintain the tonicization inherent in the style though a few different methods. Some have more interesting voice leading too.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

For those of you living in the NYC area:

Workshops – The Barry Harris Institute of Jazz

[Petimar]

For those of you living in the NYC area:

Workshops – The Barry Harris Institute of Jazz

This is great!!! Hope some online version will be available soon.

[Christian Miller]

Is Chris Byars the Chris from TILFBH?

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

Is Chris Byars the Chris from TILFBH?

No, TILFBH is made by Chris Parks.

I had to look up Chris Byars (you could have, too ). He has a page in the German wiki which says he studied privately with BH.

EDIT: Chris Parks is currently giving online lessons for Open Studio AFAIK.

[grahambop]

Is Chris Byars the Chris from TILFBH?

No, I think the ‘Things I Learned etc’ guy is called Chris Parks.

[Christian Miller]

No, I think the ‘Things I Learned etc’ guy is called Chris Parks.

ah yeah