Found the best bebop online jazz improv course to date

**MarkRhodes** · 12-01-2015, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Jazzy Beatle

You can request full access right off the bat or at any time after you signed up with the gold level. If you request full access from the get-go, you forfeit the right to the money back guarantee. If you just sign up for the regular, incremental monthly access, you’ll be able to explore Module 1 and have 30 days to decide. It seems fair to me.

I think it's good of Richie to make that offer but I am deliberately NOT doing it that way. Too often, I've raced past the "dull" work to get the "interesting" stuff and not gotten the basics down as well as I should have. So a month of working on these fingerings will be time well spent for me.

**kofblz** · 12-01-2015, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

I think it's good of Richie to make that offer but I am deliberately NOT doing it that way. Too often, I've raced past the "dull" work to get the "interesting" stuff and not gotten the basics down as well as I should have. So a month of working on these fingerings will be time well spent for me.

It's probably a good idea to make students take time to digest his fingering system, although I wish he'd at least open 2 modules to start.

**Rob MacKillop** · 12-01-2015, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

Too often, I've raced past the "dull" work to get the "interesting" stuff and not gotten the basics down as well as I should have. So a month of working on these fingerings will be time well spent for me.

That's my position as well, Mark. And it's doing me no harm at all. Two weeks in (I think, almost) and I'm really getting to cover the fretboard, cycling the changes. I've noticed my right hand improving too. It's weird, though, restricting yourself to three V7 arps for a blues - sounds very clinical early R&R or R&B. Occasionally I break out and add approach notes, a blues lick, but I'm trying to be a good boy and do my homework. I know it will stand me in good stead as the course develops.

**guitarplayer007** · 12-01-2015, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop

That's my position as well, Mark. And it's doing me no harm at all. Two weeks in (I think, almost) and I'm really getting to cover the fretboard, cycling the changes. I've noticed my right hand improving too. It's weird, though, restricting yourself to three V7 arps for a blues - sounds very clinical early R&R or R&B. Occasionally I break out and add approach notes, a blues lick, but I'm trying to be a good boy and do my homework. I know it will stand me in good stead as the course develops.

Same here I've never taken the time to ingrain things, but not to worry..Module 2 has double the amount of work..
I like 1 module at a time...I'm willing to sacrifice 1 year to really understand this stuff.
Ken

**docbop** · 12-01-2015, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Jazzy Beatle

You can request full access right off the bat or at any time after you signed up with the gold level. If you request full access from the get-go, you forfeit the right to the money back guarantee. If you just sign up for the regular, incremental monthly access, you’ll be able to explore Module 1 and have 30 days to decide. It seems fair to me.

Good to know. Already spending more than anticipated this holiday season so I'm going to follow this thread for awhile and maybe sign up and check it out in a few months. Hope more gives example of his ear training exercises.

**NSJ** · 12-01-2015, 07:01 PM

Even though this is a blues course, there is one brief moment in module one where he lays out, systematically, his fingering patterns for both major and minor 251s. ie, how to play 251s systematically in a given position .

Don't sleep on that one, it's not available as a handout, but was briefly mentioned in chart form at the end of one of the video lessons . I copied it into my notebook .

**jasaco** · 12-01-2015, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by NSJ

Even though this is a blues course, there is one brief moment in module one where he lays out, systematically, his fingering patterns for both major and minor 251s. ie, how to play 251s systematically in a given position .

Don't sleep on that one, it's not available as a handout, but was briefly mentioned in chart form at the end of one of the video lessons . I copied it into my notebook .

NSJ, can you please tell me which video number this is at the end of? I didn't see it but I'd like to!

Thanks.

**NSJ** · 12-01-2015, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by jasaco

NSJ, can you please tell me which video number this is at the end of? I didn't see it but I'd like to!

Thanks.

Module 1 video 6, " understanding vertical fingering models ". A nine minute 21 seconds video, the relevant portion is at eight minutes and 30 seconds

**jasaco** · 12-01-2015, 07:12 PM

Thanks, Navdeep.

**Rob MacKillop** · 12-01-2015, 07:25 PM

It's printed in the pdf: Module 1 Heptatonic System. But I don't think he expects us to work on that while at Module 1 stage. He just seems to be referencing it for future use, as an example that the fingering system can be used in that context. Besides, he hasn't really discussed the Dorian and Ionian modes yet.

**jasaco** · 12-01-2015, 07:26 PM

Navdeep, I just looked at that page. But of the 7 fingering models he shows, we're only able to play one of them (#5) using the 3 patterns that he teaches in Module 1 (i.e., Patterns 1,4,&5). Am I missing something or perhaps you've asked Richie to unlock the whole course to you at once and are far ahead of me and already working on the other 4 Patterns?

(I see Rob and I posted almost simultaneously...)

**MarkRhodes** · 12-01-2015, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by NSJ

Module 1 video 6, " understanding vertical fingering models ". A nine minute 21 seconds video, the relevant portion is at eight minutes and 30 seconds

I was just watching that one! However, I stopped before getting that far. Not because I was bored but because I felt overloaded. Just started yesterday.... The fingerings are curious in a few ways. For example, when I learned 3 note per string scales (-like patterns 1 and 4: F, G, and A or Bb, C and D on a single string), I played the second note with my second finger, but Richie recommends using the ring finger, so that's an adjustment. Also going back a whole step on the high E to play a note I previously played on the B string is taking some getting used to. I'll get there.

**Rob MacKillop** · 12-01-2015, 07:54 PM

I don't think you need to change playing the second note with the second finger, Mark. That's what I do. It's much easier for me to separate the index from the remaining three fingers, than to do a Spock/Vulcan-like split between 2nd and 3rd.

**Rob MacKillop** · 12-01-2015, 07:55 PM

Does Ritchie wear that hat to hide his pointy ears, I wonder??

**docbop** · 12-01-2015, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop

Does Ritchie wear that hat to hide his pointy ears, I wonder??

Maybe he's related to Kurt Rosenwinkel?

**MarkRhodes** · 12-01-2015, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop

Does Ritchie wear that hat to hide his pointy ears, I wonder??

Here's an old video of Richie playing without a hat. Doing some serious blues at that. (No pointy ears.)

**MarkRhodes** · 12-01-2015, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop

I don't think you need to change playing the second note with the second finger, Mark. That's what I do. It's much easier for me to separate the index from the remaining three fingers, than to do a Spock/Vulcan-like split between 2nd and 3rd.

It's easier for me too. Matter of fact, I'm going to go to Richie's forum and ask about this.

**MarkRhodes** · 12-01-2015, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

It's easier for me too. Matter of fact, I'm going to go to Richie's forum and ask about this.

Okay, I went there. Turns out someone had already asked this question and Richie (-who used to do this with the way Rob and I learned to do it) explains why he prefers the ring-pinky stretch.

That one fret stretch; Ring to Pinky ? F Mixo First Position | Bebop Guitar Improv Series

(I think this is the link to my post, which was just made. It's a short thread and Richie's comment should be a short scroll upward.)

NB: You will have to be a student to access the Richie's Forum.

**NSJ** · 12-01-2015, 08:56 PM

I'm not hung up on fingerings, although I recognize the elegance of his system. Basically, if you use pattern 2 for the ii chord, sliding down one position will get you fingerings for all seven diatonic chord scales ( pattern two for the ii chord, pattern five for the five chord, pattern 6 for the vi chord, pattern 3 for the iii chord, slide down one position and use pattern 1 for the I chord, pattern 4 for the IV chord, and pattern 7 for the vii chord. )

It's just like he says: you can do the circle of fifths for all 12 keys only moving down one position.

It's not that complicated or convoluted of a system, but it works very elegantly and allows you to play in cycles more easily, especially cycle 4.

As for sliding down finger one or sliding up finger 4, I was always taught to practice both. With the premise of being: that gives you immediate six fret coverage if you need it . The underlying technical concept his left hand finger independence, so you don't get bogged down by fingerings that impede you from playing .
The initial exercise I always practiced with this concept is to play a chromatic scale using this six fret coverage idea .

**matt.guitarteacher** · 12-01-2015, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by Jazzy Beatle

You can request full access right off the bat or at any time after you signed up with the gold level. If you request full access from the get-go, you forfeit the right to the money back guarantee. If you just sign up for the regular, incremental monthly access, you’ll be able to explore Module 1 and have 30 days to decide. It seems fair to me.

I went with the silver a couple of weeks because because I wanted to go ahead and pull the trigger and check all of it at once (minus the videos off course).

I DID notice watching the intro video for the silver material that Richie will let you upgrade later at a prorated amount to one of the other packages. Makes the silver even more value as a preview option for the curious I guess. Only thing you're losing is the money back option with that, because you have full pdf.

**matt.guitarteacher** · 12-01-2015, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by NSJ

Basically, if you use pattern 2 for the ii chord, sliding down one position will get you fingerings for all seven diatonic chord scales ( pattern two for the ii chord, pattern five for the five chord, pattern 6 for the vi chord, pattern 3 for the iii chord, slide down one position and use pattern 1 for the I chord, pattern 4 for the IV chord, and pattern 7 for the vii chord. )

Numbering the scales to suit the cycle is one of many simple but very clever things in the way he's designed this course. He really has a good mind for methodology. I actually really like the way he does intervallic script as well, and the way he lays out verbalizing scale degrees (and approaches) as you practice.

**guitarplayer007** · 12-01-2015, 09:24 PM

Richie introduces minor patterns in Module 5

**guitarplayer007** · 12-01-2015, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher

Numbering the scales to suit the cycle is one of many simple but very clever things in the way he's designed this course. He really has a good mind for methodology. I actually really like the way he does intervallic script as well, and the way he lays out verbalizing scale degrees (and approaches) as you practice.

Yes intervallic script is really cool, in fact I've been writing out the Etudes on Separate paper just using intervallic script so I can't see the actual notes or tab.
ken