Found the best bebop online jazz improv course to date

**guitarplayer007** · 11-05-2015, 03:37 PM

He should give me a cut for getting people to his site...lol

**MarkRhodes** · 11-05-2015, 05:29 PM

Post a link so people can find it. There's nothing wrong with posting links to other sites. Happens all the time.

**guitarplayer007** · 11-05-2015, 09:15 PM

Here the link!!!

About The Series | Bebop Guitar Improv Series

**AlsoRan** · 11-05-2015, 10:39 PM

Another thing that is attractive to me is that he starts out with the Blues.

I was working on Herb Ellis' Swing Blues but I kept wanting to play notes that were not the particular shape. It is a bit deflating when you want to play what is in your head but your hands are tied because you are supposed to be working with the particular shape. What if I want to slide up and go higher.

I just do/did not have the discipline to keep working in the little boxes or clusters that I am given in my various Jazz instructional materials.

**guitarplayer007** · 11-05-2015, 10:44 PM

Hi Alsoran,

Well this starts out with basic 12 bar blues as the vehicle to learn you're jazz grammar, then i believe in Module 5 he introduces 2/5's into the mix and by the end Bird blues as well as other types of Jazzblues.
I'm working on his ear training as we speak...each module has ear training.

**jasaco** · 11-05-2015, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by jasaco

Does he have any sample lessons from the course posted anywhere? I watched his 22 min video and his 16 min video, they were both all talk, no lesson demo...

Still trying to find a link to an actual sample lesson. Does this exist anywhere? It should...
There are lots of youtubes of him playing but we all know that some great players are not great teachers. I'd like to see an example or two of him teaching...

**guitarplayer007** · 11-06-2015, 12:07 AM

I'm not sure...yiu can see some of them in preview. .. but I don't know of any examples. ...all I can tell you I've join probably 6 to 10 sites since 2009 and thus is by far the best lessons I've ever seen online. ..I know he has 30 day money back guarantee. .... and again you don't need to the Skype lessons he offers so I believe it's only $100. For 12 months...I personally would have paid alot more for this information and the way it's presented.
Ken

**NSJ** · 11-06-2015, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by jasaco

Still trying to find a link to an actual sample lesson. Does this exist anywhere? It should...
There are lots of youtubes of him playing but we all know that some great players are not great teachers. I'd like to see an example or two of him teaching...

OK I'll serve as your guinea pig. I normally do not bother with these sort of courses anymore. Because at some point, we have enough knowledge and we just need to start working on tunes . Which is what I have been doing. However, a systematic course on bebop blues interests me a lot.

So, I signed up for the $89 level. In hindsight, just buying the PDFs for $49 would have sufficed.

I went ahead and watched everything from module one and everything from the crash course in Theory and chords lessons.

Here's what I discovered-- I was really happy to learn that I pretty much already knew everything he presented ( except for his shorthand interval notation, but even then, everyone pretty much knows what is meant by "playing the #9 of the V chord to the b7 of the iii chord). Some of the lessons were very basic-- The rhythm section taught you how to count and eighth notes and tap your foot accordingly, equating the down stroke and upstroke with the downbeat and upbeat).

the 7 step fingering system presented sounded elaborate and perhaps even obtuse. But it's not: it's simply a variation of the CAGED System in which all scales that start on the root note are played with the first second or fourth finger of the left-hand . Everyone already knows that bebop is the chromatic targeting of arpeggios. My only quibble with the whole thing is that, like many teachers, he refuses to use a conventional labeling system for the left and right hands (PIMA for right hand is not applicable here-seems to be pick only; left hand should be 1-2-3-4--he uses silly terms such as pinky and ring finger-- as someone who has never been married, I'm not exactly sure to this day what a ring finger is ).

But even though I already knew everything presented with the first module- I would recommend at least the PDF version or the $89 version of this course. Here's why -- usually, on a general level, I have come across two types of teachers-- (1) Music teachers who understand and can teach music profoundly with the depth it requires but generally do not know anything about the guitar -- in fact, I was talking to a very qualified classical pianist who has numerous music students and also teaches guitar. I wanted to ask her some questions about comping, but I quickly realized she only knows how to play root position chords on the sixth and fifth string! (2) The "put your finger here, hammer and pull off crowd" who know the guitar very well, but not much about music as both an aural actuality and theoretical concept.

Thus, even though I already knew almost everything in the first module, I was very impressed by the step-by-step way he presented it, with a clear and thorough musical foundation and it direct applicability and consequences for the guitar as a very unique instrument that presents its own particular technical issues. My impression is that He is a very serious and qualified music instructor who understands the guitar very profoundly Who presents the information in a very logical and step-by-step process.. The guy is right: the Internet is full of bits of information here, a link there a tidbit of theory over there, etc. he presents the information well Innoway it should be presented: logical, clear, step-by-step, in a very musical sort away .

I think I will keep the course and just ask them if I can download all the modules at once. I think for most people here, that or just buying the PDFs will suffice.

It's not going to steer me away from my main task: learning tunes. But I think it's an excellent course on bebop blues as it applies to the guitar.

**MarkRhodes** · 11-06-2015, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by guitarplayer007

Send message if you want to know it, not sure i can promote it here...
Ken

Yes, you can post the link here. It's easier for everyone that way. We all check out other sites.

**guitarplayer007** · 11-06-2015, 10:33 AM

Hi NSJ,

I don't know how long you've been playing jazz, but yes the first module is very basic...But I can assure you it gets a lot more complex...Again I'm only on Module 3 and there is a tremendous amount of great info already distilled. Your right he is a great teacher and you can see though his videos this took a long time to put together.He does state for more advanced students you can request all 9 modules be delivered at once. I also forgot to mention all the downloads he has for rhythm training and Etudes. The etudes you can download right into BAIB. Keep us posted if you get all modules open to you. He also has something called Bebop calisthenics which I believe starts in Module 2, I like those a lot as well.
Thanks for your review
ken

**MarkRhodes** · 11-06-2015, 10:38 AM

Here's a link: Bebop Guitar Improv Series |

Here's a YouTube video of Richie playing "Satin Doll."

And here's a video of him playing "Autumn Leaves."

**guitarplayer007** · 11-06-2015, 10:43 AM

Btw its not just a Bebop blues course, but he uses bebop blues in the beginning to learn the basics...he does state the goal is to be able to improvise over a 32 measure standard.
ken

**MarkRhodes** · 11-06-2015, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by NSJ

OK I'll serve as your guinea pig. I normally do not bother with these sort of courses anymore. Because at some point, we have enough knowledge and we just need to start working on tunes . Which is what I have been doing. However, a systematic course on bebop blues interests me a lot.

Thank you for the detailed breakdown of the bronze / silver / gold levels of membership. I will consider doing the bronze. I've spent a couple months back at Sonic Junction ($19.95 per) with Duke Robillard's lessons, which are all in the context of tunes. (Learn the chords / rhythm first, then the intro / head, then some soloing ideas---each tune is generally four lessons though some are 3 or 5, depending.) Anyway, I have enough of those sorts of tunes to continue refining for now. Something different would make a nice change of pace.

However, what's this heptonic scale business?

**NSJ** · 11-06-2015, 10:59 AM

Let me just add the big take-home point of module one for me that I already knew but am glad that was reinforced--- something I learned over and over again when I was taking private lessons with my teacher. My teacher said over and over again, just like what this guy said in module one: "the scale, arpeggio and chord should all be immediately available and freely interchangeable at any given position".

I'm certainly not qualified to be a teacher, but as a student of this music, there is no doubt in my mind that this is a huge concept that needs to be absorbed and grokked.

This explains, in part, the wise and wherefores of his fingering system Well, it's not his fingering system, I imagone it was used by the Joe Pass' and Jimmy Raney's of the world. I believe it to be critically important in terms of overcoming the technical problems of the fingerboard in such a way that one can freely just play music after overcoming these fingerboard technical issues.

"The scale, arpeggio, and chord to be freely available and interchangeable in any given position on the fingerboard".

Also, I want to add how important it is to think about root movement as he presented it in module one . And how this critically relates to the fingerboard . Once again, a very critical musical concept that is made specific for the particular needs of our instrument . Thus, just by going up the circle of 4ths, we can move up the first 7 keys in the same position on the guitar (And not just keys, but chords arpeggios and scales ) and then move down only one portion on the guitar to get at the other 5 keys.

I mean, I already knew this, but he explained it in a very clear and precise way.

**NSJ** · 11-06-2015, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

Thank you for the detailed breakdown of the bronze / silver / gold levels of membership. I will consider doing the bronze. I've spent a couple months back at Sonic Junction ($19.95 per) with Duke Robillard's lessons, which are all in the context of tunes. (Learn the chords / rhythm first, then the intro / head, then some soloing ideas---each tune is generally four lessons though some are 3 or 5, depending.) Anyway, I have enough of those sorts of tunes to continue refining for now. Something different would make a nice change of pace.

However, what's this heptonic scale business?

All that means is that we don't start scales in the root position (1234567) with the third finger of the left-hand. That's what he's talking about: they always start with the 1st, 2nd and 4th finger-at least on the 6th or 5th string. ( Think of it this way: the two octave major scale Pattern across all strings can be played, for example-2-4, 1-2-4, 1-3-4, 1-3-4, 2-4, 1-2--that starts with the 2nd finger).

it wouldn't be fair to elaborate the full system here, but I gave you a big foundational part of the concept. Which turns out to be something I already practice anyway .

**guitarplayer007** · 11-06-2015, 11:29 AM

I like the way he has you practice descending 5ths in arpeggios and the use of his graphic depiction cycle as well

**matt.guitarteacher** · 11-06-2015, 11:48 AM

Great posts, NSJ.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by NSJ

All that means is that we don't start scales in the root position (1234567) with the third finger of the left-hand. That's what he's talking about: they always start with the 1st, 2nd and 4th finger-at least on the 6th or 5th string. ( Think of it this way: the two octave major scale Pattern across all strings can be played, for example-2-4, 1-2-4, 1-3-4, 1-3-4, 2-4, 1-2--that starts with the 2nd finger).

it wouldn't be fair to elaborate the full system here, but I gave you a big foundational part of the concept. Which turns out to be something I already practice anyway .

Are they shift-based CAGED? Or stretch fingerings?

Originally Posted by NSJ

"the scale, arpeggio and chord should all be immediately available and freely interchangeable at any given position".

I'm certainly not qualified to be a teacher, but as a student of this music, there is no doubt in my mind that this is a huge concept that needs to be absorbed and grokked.

This explains, in part, the wise and wherefores of his fingering system Well, it's not his fingering system, I imagone it was used by the Joe Pass' and Jimmy Raney's of the world. I believe it to be critically important in terms of overcoming the technical problems of the fingerboard in such a way that one can freely just play music after overcoming these fingerboard technical issues.

Agree 100% with all of this. It irritates me to no end when people say that these considerations don't really matter . "Just go and play it anyway you see fit." Once you get into chromatic enclosures and such, the nonsystematic approach becomes profoundly frustrating, at least it did for me. It's a hurdle that horn players never deal with ." Any old way you can come up with", with no regard for how chords, arpeggios, and scales actually relate to each other just seems crazy to me.

Thanks again. I'll have to check this out as well.

**NSJ** · 11-06-2015, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher

Great posts, NSJ.

Thanks!
Are they shift-based CAGED? Or stretch fingerings?

Agree 100% with all of this. It irritates me to no end when people say that these considerations don't really matter . "Just go and play it anyway you see fit." Once you get into chromatic enclosures and such, the nonsystematic approach becomes profoundly frustrating, at least it did for me. It's a hurdle that horn players never deal with ." Any old way you can come up with", with no regard for how chords, arpeggios, and scales actually relate to each other just seems crazy to me.

Thanks again. I'll have to check this out as well.

I don't want to make it more complex than what it is, it's not that complex. Basically it's positional playing in which you can change positions briefly to reach certain notes. I.e., if you're playing scales starting with the first finger, you'll have to stretch one fret up , for example, to reach the major third on the six string. or, alternatively, stretch one fret down to play the M6 on the fourth string . Of course, he makes this point very simply.

This was already taught to me before by my teacher --: you either stretch your first finger down one fret or fourth finger up One fret, as needed. This concept enabled you to play the chromatic scale more or less in one position, stretching as needed as indicated above . The overarching issue is left hand finger Independence that allows you to play what you need when you need it . Basically positional playing that overcomes the technical limitations of positional playing, with the ability to stretch as needed .

**guitarplayer007** · 11-06-2015, 12:23 PM

I like this Intervallic scrip system he uses, it teaches you to see degrees instead of notes and makes transposing phases in any key in any fingering position a piece of cake. He also uses something called Rhythm templates where you right your own Etudes..but he supplies the rhythmic notation as well as which ones should be chord tones, neighboring tones or chromatic tones. That's the basic templates....of course as the modules open up the templates get more complex as well.
Ken

**AlsoRan** · 11-06-2015, 01:27 PM

Damn you all!

This is not the type of thread to have when you have fools like me who are forever searching for that magic Jazz guitar course that will allow me to reach my musical dreams.

Its just not fair.

**guitarplayer007** · 11-06-2015, 01:40 PM

To Alsoran,

I'm in the same boat, tried numerous ways to get to where I want to be..But it hasn't happened to my satisfaction...I truly believe this is what I've been looking for.
Good luck
ken

**55bar** · 11-06-2015, 01:47 PM

It's so great to see all the enthusiasm, if only these online courses were about when I was younger, the best I got was when my mum came back from the local record library every Saturday and brought me a selection of wes albums to listen to, she didn't even know who he was but thought his guitar looked cool. Needless to say I knew I only had them a week so I got busy listening and transcribing! Great way to focus

Once I've got some time I'll definitely take a look at this, I'd be very interested to see/hear some clips of everyone's progress!

Great thread 007, licence to trill.

Mines a vodka martini shaken around a bit but not spilt

**jasaco** · 11-06-2015, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by NSJ

... Basically it's positional playing in which you can change positions briefly to reach certain notes. I.e., if you're playing scales starting with the first finger, you'll have to stretch one fret up , for example, to reach the major third on the six string. or, alternatively, stretch one fret down to play the M6 on the fourth string ... you either stretch your first finger down one fret or fourth finger up One fret, as needed.

Please tell me I won't have to give up all the work I did to internalize Jimmy Bruno's 5 fingerings... This course sounds great but I don't wanna start all over on the fingerings and learn a different system. Must I??

**AlsoRan** · 11-06-2015, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by jasaco

Please tell me I won't have to give up all the work I did to internalize Jimmy Bruno's 5 fingerings... This course sounds great but I don't wanna start all over on the fingerings and learn a different system. Must I??

I am just about desperate enough to allow myself to be lead from scratch and give up my previously conceived notions. Just about...