What do I really need to practice

[AdroitMage]

Dude, I'm about to become an influential artist in the world of jazz and a successful rock, and blues artist too because I'm trully blessed, and I put in the time and the study to make myself a quality player; so I can play that motherfucking guitar. I can sing quite well too.

[AllanAllen]

Dude, I'm about to become an influential artist in the world of jazz and a successful rock, and blues artist too because I'm trully blessed, and I put in the time and the study to make myself a quality player; so I can play that motherfucking guitar. I can sing quite well too.

[Strat-itis]

Dude, I'm about to become an influential artist in the world of jazz.

Bop Head?

[Tal_175]

Going back to the OP, I think a major transition in jazz improvisation is shifting from using notes as building blocks to using phrases instead. This shift allows you not only to play faster with intention, but also to pre-hear longer musical ideas. I'm currently modifying how I practice in order to force myself to think exclusively in phrases.

[AllanAllen]

I’m trying to go from notes to arpeggios to phrases. So I agree with this.

[rpjazzguitar]

At the beginning, it may sound like noodling.

Then, some players start developing phrase-based playing. That can sound masterful in the right hands. Some might reasonably argue that it is the best approach to jazz guitar. Maybe most.

I think there's another direction that's possible, although these are overlapping techniques. The idea is to focus on the entire structure of a solo, from the beginning. So, you have an idea of how it's going to build, from the outset.

It sort of works. I find that I can get to a point with this approach but rarely the whole solo. After all, it matters what everybody else plays. And then, your ability to remember the original conception as you progress also matters. As does the injection of new ideas along the way.

In a way, the idea might be conceived as trying to compose a new melody for the entire tune that sounds like a song and not so much like a solo. Maybe this is not a real distinction, but I think about it.

[Tal_175]

At the beginning, it may sound like noodling.

Then, some players start developing phrase-based playing. That can sound masterful in the right hands. Some might reasonably argue that it is the best approach to jazz guitar. Maybe most.

I think there's another direction that's possible, although these are overlapping techniques. The idea is to focus on the entire structure of a solo, from the beginning. So, you have an idea of how it's going to build, from the outset.

It sort of works. I find that I can get to a point with this approach but rarely the whole solo. After all, it matters what everybody else plays. And then, your ability to remember the original conception as you progress also matters. As does the injection of new ideas along the way.

In a way, the idea might be conceived as trying to compose a new melody for the entire tune that sounds like a song and not so much like a solo. Maybe this is not a real distinction, but I think about it.

I am not sure if I understand this post. I find some of the terms like "focus on entire structure", "original conception" etc. a bit vague. Do you mean something like reference the head in the first chorus, introduce blue notes in the second chorus etc? Or do you mean, hit the #4 on the bar 8, outline the turn around in the last A etc? Or do you mean actually composing a solo?

[rpjazzguitar]

Perhaps I can make it more sensible this way.

At one point I thought about transcribing Bossa Antigua by Paul Desmond.

But, the melody seemed to go on for several choruses and I didn't feel like transcribing that much because I'm slow at it.

Later, I found a chart and realized that only the first chorus was the melody of the tune.

His other choruses sounded like the melody continued - not like solos. I think of that as beautiful soloing.

So, the idea is to try to make a solo that sounds like the/an original melody to the tune. Like if you only had the chords to Autumn Leaves and had never heard any melody for those chords -- and then you improvised the original melody as your solo.

To my ear, at least for some styles/songs there's a difference between the original melody and something you might play as a solo.

It's not a sharp distinction, but it seems worth thinking about to me. But, full disclosure, I can't play fast and I don't know a lot of licks. What's left?

[AllanAllen]

The melody’s often have vanilla notes, sparse phrasing and repetitive sections. Things most solos could use.

[Tal_175]

Perhaps I can make it more sensible this way.

At one point I thought about transcribing Bossa Antigua by Paul Desmond.

But, the melody seemed to go on for several choruses and I didn't feel like transcribing that much because I'm slow at it.

Later, I found a chart and realized that only the first chorus was the melody of the tune.

His other choruses sounded like the melody continued - not like solos. I think of that as beautiful soloing.

So, the idea is to try to make a solo that sounds like the/an original melody to the tune. Like if you only had the chords to Autumn Leaves and had never heard any melody for those chords -- and then you improvised the original melody as your solo.

To my ear, at least for some styles/songs there's a difference between the original melody and something you might play as a solo.

It's not a sharp distinction, but it seems worth thinking about to me. But, full disclosure, I can't play fast and I don't know a lot of licks. What's left?

I see what you mean—a melody that leans more toward a vocal style rather than a purely instrumental one. When solos are built from phrases like building blocks, they often take on a more instrumental character. In that context, I find that the saxophone generally suits vocal-style solos better than the guitar, especially when the guitar isn’t using distortion. That’s probably why horns often play the head in small jazz combos.
Interestingly, many jazz phrases tend to highlight a single note, even though they’re surrounded by other notes. Those surrounding tones almost act as a substitute for sustaining the main note, giving it emphasis without relying on long duration.

[emanresu]

I need to practice so that it feels more like playing for real.
And when playing for real, I need to make it sound less like a practice.

[pauln]

Perhaps I can make it more sensible this way.

At one point I thought about transcribing Bossa Antigua by Paul Desmond.

But, the melody seemed to go on for several choruses and I didn't feel like transcribing that much because I'm slow at it.

Later, I found a chart and realized that only the first chorus was the melody of the tune.

His other choruses sounded like the melody continued - not like solos. I think of that as beautiful soloing.

So, the idea is to try to make a solo that sounds like the/an original melody to the tune. Like if you only had the chords to Autumn Leaves and had never heard any melody for those chords -- and then you improvised the original melody as your solo.

To my ear, at least for some styles/songs there's a difference between the original melody and something you might play as a solo.

It's not a sharp distinction, but it seems worth thinking about to me. But, full disclosure, I can't play fast and I don't know a lot of licks. What's left?

Your explanation is right on; makes me think of Wes, playing like this:

In this one he's up front the whole tune, no piano, bass,or drum solos (I really like the pianist!). It's "all melody" even when he's soloing, octaves, the few seconds of chords - always expressing the melody somehow. In spite of displacing phrases to relocate particular notes, the two note pairs descending in strict parallel intervals, even the tremolo played with his fingernail - it all sounds as you describe:

"...sounded like the melody continued - not like solos."

[AdroitMage]

[QUOTE=rpjazzguitar;1421573]At the beginning, it may sound like noodling.

Then, some players start developing phrase-based playing. That can sound masterful in the right hands. Some might reasonably argue that it is the best approach to jazz guitar. Maybe most.

I think there's another direction that's possible, although these are overlapping techniques. The idea is to focus on the entire structure of a solo, from the beginning. So, you have an idea of how it's going to build, from the outset.

It sort of works. I find that I can get to a point with this approach but rarely the whole solo. After all, it matters what everybody else plays. And then, your ability to remember the original conception as you progress also matters. As does the injection of new ideas along the way.
tually makes a lot of sense. SOme of us, myself included, consider jazz improv a la


This approach acnguage, and just like verbal language it make more snese if you "speak' / "blow" in "complete thoughts." When you write or converse you don't think about that alphabet nor each word so much, rather you think in completet thoughts, sentences, ohrases, paragraohs, to express the ideas that yuo have in mind. The same thing applies to jazz improv at its best. Yes, thinking about creqting and connecting complete musical phrases and ideas rather than just one note to another. I'm talking about speaking musically in complete, cogerent "thoughts" and putting them together that creates a solo that "says something" more than just a string of notes, but also tells a beautiful story .

[PickingMyEars]

I am doing a better job of learning tunes. The Barry Harris Method helps me hear the tunes in their true harmonic rhythm. In the past, I would throw a bunch of scales, arpeggios, and enclosures at a tune. Now, my tune practice is more straight forward, while still getting the WHOLE tune in my inner ear.

What do I need to practice?

1. I need to get back out there and play more often. Broke my shoulder beginning of the year and that put a damper on everything. Before that, I had hand surgery. I now realize that if you stop playing out... the stage fright can come back full bore

2. I need to get back into the habit of transcribing and internalizing. I used to write shit down, but I need to get back into transcribing without writing it down. Couple that with the tunes I learn. Best way to learn vocabulary. Learn it and play it. After that, I want to study how the rhythm of it all works. But I gotta internalize it before I rack my brain and flap my gums about it.

There! I typed it on the internet, so now I have to hold myself accountable