Man it's difficult to see your parents age.

[AllanAllen]

John Mortimer said it well:

”There is no pleasure worth forgoing just for an extra three years in the geriatric ward.”
Attachment 131983

Yeah yeah yeah, then the doctor takes your foot because you didn’t listen to them about diabetes.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Yeah yeah yeah, then the doctor takes your foot because you didn’t listen to them about diabetes.

Pleasure takes many forms. It’s a simple choice: you can look forward to the beginning of every day or you can look forward to the end. Then you do what you feel you have to do.

One key is to find ways to turn setbacks into triumphs. If I didn’t love beer and my health equally, I’d never have discovered non-alcoholic Blue Moon (it’s delicious - and only 70 cal)

There’s joy to be had everywhere. Everyone brings it to me - some when they arrive and others when they leave.

[AllanAllen]

See, the people in my life with the attitude you first posted are more like "I want to die with dignity, so I'm going to ignore this growth on my face instead of going to the doctor"

I see now, that's a little different than what you meant.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

See, the people in my life with the attitude you first posted are more like "I want to die with dignity, so I'm going to ignore this growth on my face instead of going to the doctor"

Ya gotta read the whole quote! ”There is no pleasure worth forgoing just for an extra three years in the geriatric ward.” Once there are other factors at stake, it's a whole different ball game. Another sage (who, on reflection, was actually me) said "There's nothing dignified about a growth on my face".

[Rob MacKillop]

I am hoping to make it to 90 which isn't that much time left, which begs the question: what am I doing spending time on the Internet instead of being out and about with the short amount of time that is left? Hmm....

I consider you a friend, my friend, but I don't want to see you here so often! After three months in a windowless emergency ward, being in four induced commas to save my life, and one case of CPR, one day two nurses put me in a wheelchair, and took me outside for the first time. It's a hospital, so there was a lot of concrete. But then I spied a small bush with reddish-brown leaves. I was unable to speak, but managed to motion to them to take me to the bush. I put my hand on a leaf, and noticed the morning dew. I burst into tears. It was SO beautiful. And I'm not making this up...one nurse turned to the other and said, "It's moments like these that remind me why I became a nurse".

I've enjoyed being out in nature ever since. That's where life is. We should all visit it at least once every day. There is no better medicine.

[Rob MacKillop]

PS AND it will make you a better musician

[MiniMerckx.22]

Forgive me for being nosey but I have to ask greywolf....what in the world did you do to accrue 12 concussions and 33 broken bones?

Thankfully my dad passed quickly at 70 from a heart attack, he was slipping a bit but not too bad. Mom passed 15 years ago and suffered Alzhiemers... I can tell you that is heartbreaking at the deepest level.

I've now survived longer than my brother, father, and grandfather. I'm in the final stages of cancer, and there is a bit of cognitive decline after 12 concussions, and the body aches of 33 broken bones and acute kidney failure a few years back.

My kids are in the denial stage, they want me to live to 100 ... I prefer quality over quantity ..

Music keeps me going, while I can't do much else, I can still play guitar a few hours a day .. that is a blessing.

[Stringswinger]

I consider you a friend, my friend, but I don't want to see you here so often! After three months in a windowless emergency ward, being in four induced commas to save my life, and one case of CPR, one day two nurses put me in a wheelchair, and took me outside for the first time. It's a hospital, so there was a lot of concrete. But then I spied a small bush with reddish-brown leaves. I was unable to speak, but managed to motion to them to take me to the bush. I put my hand on a leaf, and noticed the morning dew. I burst into tears. It was SO beautiful. And I'm not making this up...one nurse turned to the other and said, "It's moments like these that remind me why I became a nurse".

I've enjoyed being out in nature ever since. That's where life is. We should all visit it at least once every day. There is no better medicine.

Rob, I am a lifelong hiker and I do 30-40 miles a week in the redwood forests here in California. The Japanese call what I have been doing for the last 50 years "forest bathing". If I make it to 90 as planned, the time spent in nature will be a big part of it. It is indeed medice for both the body and the soul.

[Rob MacKillop]

Wow, I’m really impressed! I think you’ll reach 100! Best wishes.

[garybaldy]

Seeing a parent for several years suffering with double incontinence, dimentia and being bed ridden wasting away and another with malignant melanoma is tough to cope with.

[Marty Grass]

Here is some serious advice. Have a frank discussion with you spouse, children, lawyer, and physician about what you want as you prepare to enter the great beyond. There should be a document available to all of these. And importantly one or two people should be designated as your surrogate for decision making. This should not be a surprise to them as you roll into the emergency department.

I will give you two teaching examples I was involved with. The first was a 30 year old who fell and broke his neck at a high level. He could not breath on his own and had no movement aside from facial muscles. He wanted to be taken off the vent. It had been two weeks and there was no reasonable hope of improvement. He had discussions with his family, his family doctor, and others. He knew he would not get better. He wanted to be disconnected. I was a member of the Ethics Committee assigned this case. Sitting next to me was a psychiatrist who said the patient cannot decide to die because he's depressed. This started a long discussion. It ended with the psychiatrist stating that anyone wanting to remove life support by definition was depressed. I recommended the psychiatriat be dismissed from the committee due to his irrational stance which tramples on the right of autonomy. As committees often go, they decided to table the decision until the next meeting. The man died a few days later of pnuemonia.

The second case was my father-in-law, whom I was very close to. At 91, he slipped in his driveway and had a massive brain hemorrhage. I rode in the ambulance with him to the hospital as he slowly lost consciousness. Within just a few minutes he underwent CT scanning. While that was happening the neurosurgeon joined me in the scanned. As the images came up, we didn't even speak. It was obviously fatal. I had spent about four nights per week having dinner with him and watching movies. He had seven daughters and a son. His wife recently passed. My wife, one of her sisters, and I had taken care of him for several years. We all knew what he wanted to happen in this circumstance. He talked about it in advance and had a directive. Family poured in later that day and had their own ideas about going for a miracle. We countered that if a miracle is going to happen, no one here can prevent it. But he would not want to survive in a coma and would like to join his bride of 70 years.

It's a tough subject. I gave the eulogy for this WWII minesweeper who had a very strong work ethic, was full of patriotism, and who was not afraid of the hereafter. He had seven daughters and didn't like anyone dating them, including me. But my wife and I were in high school together. A few years later, when she was 18, we married while I was in the military. It took a few years and ultimately seven children before I was accepted by the father. He then became a good friend.

My wife and I have clear instructions on end of life care drafted by our attorney and provided to our kids. I have not gotten around to what happens to my guitars yet, although I've given some to my grandkids.

[Bob_Ross]

Here is some serious advice. Have a frank discussion with you spouse, children, lawyer, and physician about what you want as you prepare to enter the great beyond. There should be a document available to all of these. And importantly one or two people should be designated as your surrogate for decision making. This should not be a surprise to them as you roll into the emergency department.

QFT! Do it, it's money well spent. And, other than signing a crap-ton of documents in the presence of a Notary, it takes absolutely no work on your part, just a few frank conversations.

if a miracle is going to happen, no one here can prevent it.

I love that attitude! Gotta remember it if I ever wind up in a similar situation.

I have not gotten around to what happens to my guitars yet, although I've given some to my grandkids.

I used to know who was going to get most of my musical instruments in the event that I died early, but one of those folks is already gone, another is on his last legs, and the third has so many exquisite instruments now (including a $36,000 mandolin!?!?!) that it seems silly to bequeath any of my pedestrian stuff to him.

My will does include instructions to have one of my basses go to a friend/former bandmate/producer back east, but I have not alerted him that's he'll be the recipient...in part because I suspect he might try to hasten my demise if he knew he'd finally get this bass out of my hands!

[Stringswinger]

Here is some serious advice. Have a frank discussion with you spouse, children, lawyer, and physician about what you want as you prepare to enter the great beyond. There should be a document available to all of these. And importantly one or two people should be designated as your surrogate for decision making. This should not be a surprise to them as you roll into the emergency department.

I will give you two teaching examples I was involved with. The first was a 30 year old who fell and broke his neck at a high level. He could not breath on his own and had no movement aside from facial muscles. He wanted to be taken off the vent. It had been two weeks and there was no reasonable hope of improvement. He had discussions with his family, his family doctor, and others. He knew he would not get better. He wanted to be disconnected. I was a member of the Ethics Committee assigned this case. Sitting next to me was a psychiatrist who said the patient cannot decide to die because he's depressed. This started a long discussion. It ended with the psychiatrist stating that anyone wanting to remove life support by definition was depressed. I recommended the psychiatriat be dismissed from the committee due to his irrational stance which tramples on the right of autonomy. As committees often go, they decided to table the decision until the next meeting. The man died a few days later of pnuemonia.

The second case was my father-in-law, whom I was very close to. At 91, he slipped in his driveway and had a massive brain hemorrhage. I rode in the ambulance with him to the hospital as he slowly lost consciousness. Within just a few minutes he underwent CT scanning. While that was happening the neurosurgeon joined me in the scanned. As the images came up, we didn't even speak. It was obviously fatal. I had spent about four nights per week having dinner with him and watching movies. He had seven daughters and a son. His wife recently passed. My wife, one of her sisters, and I had taken care of him for several years. We all knew what he wanted to happen in this circumstance. He talked about it in advance and had a directive. Family poured in later that day and had their own ideas about going for a miracle. We countered that if a miracle is going to happen, no one here can prevent it. But he would not want to survive in a coma and would like to join his bride of 70 years.

It's a tough subject. I gave the eulogy for this WWII minesweeper who had a very strong work ethic, was full of patriotism, and who was not afraid of the hereafter. He had seven daughters and didn't like anyone dating them, including me. But my wife and I were in high school together. A few years later, when she was 18, we married while I was in the military. It took a few years and ultimately seven children before I was accepted by the father. He then became a good friend.

My wife and I have clear instructions on end of life care drafted by our attorney and provided to our kids. I have not gotten around to what happens to my guitars yet, although I've given some to my grandkids.

Back in my attorney days, I sometimes did some estate planning for my clients, which sometimes included directives to physicians. Sometimes is the operative word here. I always asked my wealthy clients if they had an estate plan, mostly to point out the tax advantages of doing things like generation skipping trusts (I felt that as their highly paid advisor on real estate matters, it was my duty to inform them of the tools that rich folks can use to avoid taxes). More often than not, I found that my clients would shrug it off, telling me that they will get to it later. I often got the same :I'll get to it later" from those who were interested in the estate planning for tax purposes, but they did not want to deal with the directive to physicians (I always sent those folks a self serving letter advising them that this omission on their part was "unwise").

Most people simply do not want to deal with their own mortality. My wife and I have detailed directives in place and we also have an estate plan. My advice to all reading this post is to do these things regardless of age or wealth accumulation. It is very much, the smart thing to do.

[sgosnell]

I absolutely do not care what happens to my guitars, nor anything else I own, after I die. I won't know anything about it. It can all go to whoever wants it, or sold and the proceeds divided as the survivors desire. There won't be enough to be worth fighting over, and I don't believe there would be any fighting in any case. My kids weren't raised that way. They will be the default decision makers if something happens to me, and we've discussed my wishes. Everyone's situation is different, and I suspect mine is less complicated than many others.

[RLetson]

At 81, I've been losing friends and family members (at an accelerating pace) for thirty-plus years, so I'm familiar with the general trajectory we all have to put up with. And mortality is only part of it--the path to the exit is not always smooth, and the prospect of physical or mental decline--or both--is daunting. And having watched the last years of my parents and in-laws, I look nervously at myself and my wife and approach each annual physical checkup uneasily.

So I think about mortality and such a lot, but without having really satisfying answers or reassurances. I do, however, have bits and pieces I take out and finger occasionally--"These fragments I have shored against my ruins." One is Robert Frost's wonderfully ironic poem, "Provide, provide," and another is a favorite cartoon that shows a guy looking out the window of what appears to be a skyscraper. Outside, another guy is falling past the window and speaking. The caption: "So far, so good."

(I also used to teach King Lear. It bites a lot harder than it did fifty years ago."

[alltunes]

I recently heard a read that the average person has about 930 months to live. I never heard it put quite those terms, but when you think about how fast a month goes by it’s quite a sobering thought.

[StormyMonday]

A friend of ours (we're all in our 70s) had a great idea. She called it the "falling into a manhole list" manhole being a euphemism for passing on. But it's a detailed list of everything survivors need to know - outstanding bills, subscriptions, bank accounts, everything you can think of. It is in addition to an estate plan and advance directives etc. I thought it was brilliant because there are often so many things one spouse takes care of (or family member or friend) that the others are not aware of. Right now we're deep in home renovations but that will become my next project. An ongoing project for us has been minimizing the stuff we have - nothing worse than having to inherit a mountain of hoarded junk to dispose of and we don't want to leave that on our kids. I'm down to just guitars, fishing rods and skis at this point and taking hard looks at those. Right now I've got them down to just what I use regularly and a few things I hope to use more (surf kayaks, mountain bikes etc). We're still pretty active; tennis 3 times a week plus mountain biking and cross country and backcountry skiing so there is gear that we're retaining. But there are a few things that I can still do that I know are not smart things to do so more gear will be given away. It's weird planning for the "back 40" but as more friends cross that bridge you can't keep putting it off. Even this thread is rough because I realize that when people see their parents age - I'm that parent! Enjoy each day, tell your people you love them and take whatever joy the universe has to offer.

[DawgBone]

I absolutely do not care what happens to my guitars, nor anything else I own, after I die. I won't know anything about it. It can all go to whoever wants it, or sold and the proceeds divided as the survivors desire. There won't be enough to be worth fighting over, and I don't believe there would be any fighting in any case. My kids weren't raised that way. They will be the default decision makers if something happens to me, and we've discussed my wishes. Everyone's situation is different, and I suspect mine is less complicated than many others.

The less you own, the less you are owned by it.

[nyc chaz]

The less you own, the less you are owned by it.

That's why i live in a van,down by the river.

[Marty Grass]

You might be surprised at how difficult it can be settling an estate. In my parents' case, I was the trustee. That turned out to be an easy job. The overall principle was that whoever wanted something in particular could get it. We got along well and wanter each other to get what was important to him or her. In a different case there were years of fighting and litigation. The attorney fees exceeded $100K among the eight siblings. Four years later it is entering the Michigan Supreme Court over land disputes. It's stupid.

Plan when your parents or you are alive. Put it in writing. That doesn't prevent swapping items among the beneficiaries later as voluntary acts.

[Mick-7]

That's why i live in a van, down by the river.

You take my hand, I'll take your hand
Together, we may get away
This much madness is too much sorrow
It's impossible to make it today

I admit that I've found it difficult to heed the hobo's maxim: "Never own anything you'll have to feed or paint."

[PMB]

I consider you a friend, my friend, but I don't want to see you here so often! After three months in a windowless emergency ward, being in four induced commas to save my life, and one case of CPR, one day two nurses put me in a wheelchair, and took me outside for the first time. It's a hospital, so there was a lot of concrete. But then I spied a small bush with reddish-brown leaves. I was unable to speak, but managed to motion to them to take me to the bush. I put my hand on a leaf, and noticed the morning dew. I burst into tears. It was SO beautiful. And I'm not making this up...one nurse turned to the other and said, "It's moments like these that remind me why I became a nurse".

I've enjoyed being out in nature ever since. That's where life is. We should all visit it at least once every day. There is no better medicine.

Rob, your experience immediately reminded me of this great interview with Dennis Potter:

[PMB]

There were about 2.3 million weddings in the US last year and 2.4 million funerals. I think it’d be great to include music as part of a Bon Voyage party when we exit stage top (or bottom - YMMV). I’d love to know that my death prompted my friends & family to get together, groove to the music, sip a wee dram, reminisce about the good times and things we all shared, and have a few hours’ rest from the craziness I’ll be leaving behind. I’d also be thrilled that my passing created a decent gig for a few musicians

A woman messaged early last year and asked me if I could put a trio together to perform at her party. When I asked about the event, she replied, "I have a couple of months to live and I'd like to celebrate with my family and friends while I still have the energy". She lived in a beautiful apartment that overlooked a bay and we played on the balcony. Although painfully thin, she managed to have an assisted dance and laughed as her circle offered memorable anecdotes.

Each of us in the trio spoke to her during a break between sets and the woman mentioned that she had a week left. Sure enough, I discovered that she'd died exactly one week later. Her obituary was self-penned and described how she would be found lying on the couch in the morning.

It was an incredible evening and my only regret on leaving was that I hadn't run into this intelligent, funny, radiant, calm and deep person many years before.

[brent.h]

I haven't had the experience of seeing my parents age. Father dropped dead from a heart attack at 69 (I was 24). Mother passed at 62, 6 months after a stroke from breast/ovarian cancer complications (I was 29).

I'm 41 this year. According to my genetic destiny, I think I have about 20+ years left, but I want to give myself the 'best chance possible'. I've been working on trying to build some habits that will help me age better and have a slightly longer life. I try to eat super clean everyday, get some exercise, get a little sun (without the sunburn - skin cancer is a real problem where I'm from), get some banter with people around me, etc. I don't dread aging; I dread losing my mind and not remembering the people and things I love.

Ok. I just realised I am a baby (age-wise) in comparison to everyone here.

[Gilpy]

I took care of both my (long divorced) parents in their last years, as well as my stepfather. So I guess you could say I’m familiar with the process.
A few lessons learned:
Even though you’ll be dead and won’t care, do your estate planning, because even in the best cases, it can be a big burden on your family, who have their own lives to live.
Take care of your health because the goal is to get old and die quickly instead of suffering from a chronic illness for 10 years. (I realize this isn’t something we can always control).
Think about the cost and disruption of extended medical care, and then double that estimate.
I’m in my mid 70s, (still gigging) and have been vegetarian for 60 years, take no meds, weigh the same as I did in high school, and have never been really sick.
Pretty much all my relatives lived well into their 80s. Statistically, I should make it to100. But I (or anyone) could drop dead tomorrow. As Warren Zevon said: “Enjoy every sandwich”!
My mom made it to 97. I do not want to be 97!