An interesting take

[Hep To The Jive]

You can be both.

Miles was an artist first and foremost. Trumpeters are often a bit sniffy about his actual trumpet playing (they all love Cifford) but there's no doubt of his artistic importance and the vision of his own music. He went through periods of being fit and healthy enough to play very well - the 60s spring to mind - but often his playing avoided that kind of virtuoso display. Sometimes he just couldn't play that well, but he was always worth listening to.

Horace Silver comes to mind too, Monk of course. Players who chose not to express themselves as virtuoso masters of the instrument, but instead leaning into a unique expression - often hiring very virtuoso players.

As opposed to the sot of virtuoso player who can play anything. Such players are valuable too.

In jazz there's still a heavy premium placed on having your own sound. Today's players have that for me - Sullivan Fortner for example. You don't tend to hear so many musicians who are slightly technically imperfect yet compelling on an artistic level in jazz these days? Everyone seems to be a virtuoso.

In rock this goes even further. It's not an instrumental music, so the emphasis is on songwriting, and performance, concept and lyrics are often as important as the music itself. So you have these figures who are not technically excellent players of anything, or even necessarily technically great singers, but they have a vibe and a concept. Bowie, Lou Reed, Tom Waits, Dylan etc etc.

Patrick Bartley said in jazz it's more important to be good than to be unique. I tend to agree with that. In pop music or rock it's not that clear.
When I was a kid I recorded a cover of a Led Zeppelin song and sent it to a famous DJ through some personal connections. I thought I did a really
good job. The DJ also said I did a good job, but what am I trying to achieve? He said if you want to succeed you have to do something unique,
respect to elders never pays off in rockn'rolI, you gotta be bold and creative. I had to admit he's right, but there's a difference with jazz.

[RLetson]

Kind of an aside, but "museum" as a knock always makes me wonder, "What's wrong with museums?" Museums are where I learned how to see visual art, partly thanks to a transformative junior year in Europe. Performances of canonical music of all kinds--classical, jazz, and folk--shaped how I hear to this day, more than 65 years later. Are historical-practices/authentic-instrument recordings (the aural equivalent of the art museum) somehow lesser artistic expressions? Should I dismiss those performances of the Bach sonatas and partitas played on a baroque violin with a baroque bow?

But then, I've spent my life exploring the widest historical range of all the arts I attend to--what can you expect of a guy who spent a decade studying medieval and Renaissance literature? (But who has spent 40 years reviewing current science fiction.)

I still have a vivid memory of live performances of the Wolverines Classic Jazz Orchestra--their charts were rooted in old jazz and were nevertheless riveting. That's a museum I would happily revisit.

[Hep To The Jive]

Kind of an aside, but "museum" as a knock always makes me wonder, "What's wrong with museums?

Nothing. I think it just means something belonging to the past, not the future.

[charlieparker]

Kind of an aside, but "museum" as a knock always makes me wonder, "What's wrong with museums?" Museums are where I learned how to see visual art, partly thanks to a transformative junior year in Europe. Performances of canonical music of all kinds--classical, jazz, and folk--shaped how I hear to this day, more than 65 years later. Are historical-practices/authentic-instrument recordings (the aural equivalent of the art museum) somehow lesser artistic expressions? Should I dismiss those performances of the Bach sonatas and partitas played on a baroque violin with a baroque bow?

But then, I've spent my life exploring the widest historical range of all the arts I attend to--what can you expect of a guy who spent a decade studying medieval and Renaissance literature? (But who has spent 40 years reviewing current science fiction.)

I still have a vivid memory of live performances of the Wolverines Classic Jazz Orchestra--their charts were rooted in old jazz and were nevertheless riveting. That's a museum I would happily revisit.

What's wrong with math rock or prog rock or having a male audience? Nothing. I was just using a the term to shine light on the false dichotomy Branford presented that somehow music with a walking bass has more universal appeal.

I love museums, too.

[Christian Miller]

I was just using a the term to shine light on the false dichotomy Branford presented that somehow music with a walking bass has more universal appeal.

Maybe I didn’t catch that bit but I don’t think Branford actually said that. What I thought he said is that Jaco pulled too much focus as a bass player and overplayed. Which is a horn player thing to say haha. Weather report before Jaco was still playing jazz/rock

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[charlieparker]

Maybe I didn’t catch that bit but I don’t think Branford actually said that. What I thought he said is that Jaco pulled too much focus as a bass player and overplayed. Which is a horn player thing to say haha. Weather report before Jaco was still playing jazz/rock

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He said the music didn't groove without the bass and then he realized he was surrounded by 2200 dudes so he had to get out of there.

The rant was pretty funny but, I didn't agree with it. Although part about going back to the masters, resonated.

I don't know if I buy the part about all these "math nerds" who don't know Jazz and only improv. Maybe at the amateur level but hard for me to believe any pro is like that.

[EastwoodMike]

Maybe I didn’t catch that bit but I don’t think Branford actually said that. What I thought he said is that Jaco pulled too much focus as a bass player and overplayed. Which is a horn player thing to say haha. Weather report before Jaco was still playing jazz/rock

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Horn players got a bit annoyed when Charlie Christian got amplifiers and took focus away from the horns with his own solos. Jaco didn’t distract: he also just reframed the role of the bass as an instrument (a bit). As technology for the bass guitar evolved the instrument’s capability someone was inevitably going to use that to have a point of difference.