Charlie Parker fully analyzed

[Christian Miller]

I think what you were doing before was fine

As a POI Barry didn’t like compound intervals. He like 6 not 13.

The mainstream way to do it seems to be to use compounds intervals as if scale steps are chord extensions. I suppose that is quite CST.


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[GuyBoden]

I think what you were doing before was fine

As a POI Barry didn’t like compound intervals. He like 6 not 13.

The mainstream way to do it seems to be to use compound intervals as if scale steps are chord extensions. I suppose that is quite CST.

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Thanks, concerning compound intervals, I'd prefer b2 not b9 etc, it would save subtracting 7 from compound interval number.

Also, I prefer no key signatures, but notate the accidentals.

You seem to be familiar with all the different systems, which is a very good and advantageous approach.

Edit: A non-compound interval, looks a bit odd as a Chord.

This is another classic Bebop line.

[GuyBoden]

But, does the phrase look clearer with compound intervals?

[AllanAllen]

I'm enjoying playing these licks as you post them. Trying to work on my reading lately.

[Mick-7]

Thanks, concerning compound intervals, I'd prefer b2 not b9 etc, it would save subtracting 7 from compound interval number.

The 9th is a chord extension, the 2nd and 6th are not (if it's not a 7th chord), therefore they're normally called 9th & 13th.

Re: your chord names, it's actually just G7 > Cm. Ab (b9th) & Eb (b13th) would be common alterations of G7 when resolving to Cm (= C harmonic minor).

P.S. - Re: the title of this thread, "Charlie Parker fully analyzed" would probably require months of study by a team of eminent psychiatrists.

[GuyBoden]

I'm enjoying playing these licks as you post them. Trying to work on my reading lately.

Here's a classic Bebop phrase with a few enclosures and an arpeggio, just for you.

[Christian Miller]

But, does the phrase look clearer with compound intervals?

I think you have to evaluate the different ways of looking at it and see what makes sense to you.

Barry fwiw didn’t use a concept of chord extensions as far as I can tell. It was all substitutions and diminished scale borrowings and so on. Totally different model. Lines all came from the scales.

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[pamosmusic]

Here's a classic Bebop phrase with a few enclosures and an arpeggio, just for you.

this makes quite a bit more sense to me as a way of looking at things.

I guess the next step would be, how to go about incorporating what you learn in other contexts

[Christian Miller]

Here's a classic Bebop phrase with a few enclosures and an arpeggio, just for you.

This is more the way I tend to break things down

I don’t need to keep track of very single note over every chord. The important thing is how the line is constructed. The connection to the harmonic context - ii V i or whatever - can be quite loose and general.


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[Stevebol]

A lot of info of all sorts on this thread.

I read somewhere that Parker started his self-education by learning "Honeysuckle Rose" in all keys. Anyone here ever do this?

I don't know if it's true but that's not a bad idea if you're serious about jazz.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

A lot of info of all sorts on this thread.

I read somewhere that Parker started his self-education by learning "Honeysuckle Rose" in all keys. Anyone here ever do this?

If you want it to be an effective practice on guitar you have to consider how a saxophone works. There is an individual key combination for every note in the tonal range of the instrument.*) This means a melody is fingered totally different in every possible transposition.

On guitar you can easily transpose by shifting your same fingerings several frets up or down.

So to get an effect like a saxophonist practicing through all keys you have to start the melody from every possible finger/string combination. Which trains your ear-to-muscle-memory capabilities enabling you to execute from audiation to sound from anywhere on your instrument.

*) Sometimes jazz saxophonists use alternative fingerings -- so called "false fingerings" -- to get easier from one certain note to another. Parker was a master of that as well.

[Stevebol]

Today, there are no bands that exist where a young player can get some experience to better himself. And all of the clubs are gone. Where do you gain the experience as a young musician?

- Dizzy Gillespie, 1985

There’s some seriously fabulous content here:

This has been driving me crazy the last 3-4 years. There was an underground music scene in San Diego and the far east until 1986. We call it- the band days.
No one ever said words like 'gangster', 'mafia', yakuza'. It was all word of mouth. I heard about gigs overseas when I was driving a cab.
What exists in the underground stays in the underground.
I'd only bring this up with guitarists.
In the mid 90's I contacted a bandmate from our Osaka gig in 85-86' and he filled me in. No more band gigs in Osaka, Tokyo, Hong Kong and Singapore for American funk bands.
I said, what happened to the people running things? He said they're gone.
San Diego and Osaka aren't exactly the center of the universe.

I don't know what happened with the rest of the world but I know what happened with us in 1985.
People in Japan were spending money like they'd lost their minds. It was insane.

[GuyBoden]

This is a classic Charlie Parker type phrase over a dominant chord.

I like to use the interval numbers under the notation, so that I know what chords the phrase may fit over.

The D# and F# are obviously chromatic approach notes from below.

[Stevebol]

^ Please don't revive this deep state mad at theory thread.

I see what you did there.
How else are people going to write stupid melodies if they don't OD on jazz theory?

[Stevebol]

^ Please don't revive this deep state mad at theory thread.

The mad at theory deep state owns the clubs. You have to compromise and respect other people's point of view.
Why should they invest in irresponsibility? They own the clubs, they don't run them.

[GuyBoden]

Here is a classic Parker phrase using Chromatic Triplets.

The first triplet starts on the 5th note of Amin and then the next triplet starts on the 7th note of Amin.

It's an easy phrase to play and very effective too.

[Stevebol]

Hi guys, I would like to share our new ebook with all the bebop progressions by Charlie Parker fully analyzed. We took a long time to finish it but at last is done. We also put a nice video together that kind of shows what’s inside the book. Check it out!

We already know modes. Guitar is an instinctively modal instrument.

[GuyBoden]

We already know modes. Guitar is an instinctively modal instrument.

Bebop does not use Modes.

I suspect you already knew that, but are winding us up.

[Stevebol]

Bebop does not use Modes.

I suspect you already knew that, but are winding us up.

I would never do such a thing..

As someone else suggested, I think it would make you a better musician to learn Honeysuckle Rose in all keys. Noddle around and see where it leads you.

[Stevebol]

Many things spawned bebop. I think you're oversimplifying (possibly to the point of caricature) a complex process of creation, of which the factors you mention were but a few involved.

My only connection to it is my parents were tight with Al Tinney. They never told me he sang with the Jive Bombers in the 50's.
It's all about jazz and classical and everything else is an afterthought.
Whatever. I might have snapped out of it and offered him a gig overseas. It's too late now.

[m_d]

This has been driving me crazy the last 3-4 years. There was an underground music scene in San Diego and the far east until 1986. We call it- the band days.
No one ever said words like 'gangster', 'mafia', yakuza'. It was all word of mouth. I heard about gigs overseas when I was driving a cab.
What exists in the underground stays in the underground.
I'd only bring this up with guitarists.
In the mid 90's I contacted a bandmate from our Osaka gig in 85-86' and he filled me in. No more band gigs in Osaka, Tokyo, Hong Kong and Singapore for American funk bands.
I said, what happened to the people running things? He said they're gone.
San Diego and Osaka aren't exactly the center of the universe.

I don't know what happened with the rest of the world but I know what happened with us in 1985.
People in Japan were spending money like they'd lost their minds. It was insane.

Japan is such a fascinating country. Possibly my favorite in the world, among all that I've seen. About crime: visiting Osaka and Tokyo today, it's hard to imagine there's any crime at all there, or ever was. A shocking contrast to Paris, London, New York and many other Western cities.

[Stevebol]

Japan is such a fascinating country. Possibly my favorite in the world, among all that I've seen. About crime: visiting Osaka and Tokyo today, it's hard to imagine there's any crime at all there, or ever was. A shocking contrast to Paris, London, New York and many other Western cities.

It sure is. There are rumblings that things used to be better as in pre-90's. Things were different but not better.
I'm not Japanese but I think people there want the yakuza to be gone for good. Their thuggish behavior probably played a big part in making Japan what it is today but they're not respected now.
Why should they be.
Americans are stubborn. They don't like to admit someone else does something better but Japan is the entertainment capital of the world.

[Stevebol]

I’ve had to think about this one. I need to talk to a horn player.

Here’s the thing I guess, if Parker hadn’t been a sax player would he have played the same shit?

Well he shares a main influence with the other Charlie (christian) in Lester young. So both represent a development of what Prez was doing. And Charlie was of course a heavy shapes player despite being the first guitarist to come not from banjo, but trying to imitate a horn.

In terms of imitating what bird did historically play on saxophone on guitar, well that pushes you into some non guitaristic territory (though there are guitaristic ways to play some of that stuff, which Jimmy certainly used) and there are kind of lots of shapes and licks which Bird used. He was to some extent quite a lick oriented player.

Which leads me to suspect a lot of what he did was natural to the horn. Which would suggest that his approach on guitar would have been to find things natural to that instrument.... But I’d need to ask a Sax player.

I get my music history from video games;

Al Tinney - Wikipedia

Mom used to drag him to the uni to give a lecture.

As expected, Hollywood and Amazon Prime totally destroyed the Fallout TV series

[Stevebol]

I'm glad I have no idea how Charlie Parker did it.

I thought it was just me. I don't have a clue either.

[Stevebol]

[QUOTE=Irishmuso;1221543]

Yeah, that’s an epic first post!


'...a cross between Hemingway, haiku, a physics textbook and the Tibetan book of the dead...'

Priceless!

Music theory is a tool not a war.