CmMaj7

[RonDen]

Hello,
How does a Cm become also become a Maj chord at the same time
CmMaj7 My funny Valentine chord..
Ronald

[jazzereh]

Others will give you a better understanding but the 3rd is lowered as in the minor chord - Eb - but the 7th is not lowered so stays as the B in the major chord.

[M-ster]

The chord symbol indicates a minor triad with a major 7th (from the root) added.

C Eb G B

[AlsoRan]

Hello,
How does a Cm become also become a Maj chord at the same time
CmMaj7 My funny Valentine chord..
Ronald

I would also add the reason it has a minor tonality is because of the flatted 3, "Eb"

The Major part of its name, I would think comes from the Major 7 note, "B"

So you have the minor third, a characteristic of a minor chord, and you have the Major 7, a characteristic of the Major chord, and I guess someone decided to account for both tonalities and call it "minor Major7"

It is so appropriate.

[Danny W.]

It's really just shorthand for "Cm (with a) Major 7". It's frequently written in charts as Cm(Ma7), although I sometimes see it as CmM7.

Danny W.

[matt.guitarteacher]

I almost said something about the difficulty of this tune earlier. Not the easiest first tune IMO.

The context is important for this chord. It's a classic chromatic descending lead line, sometimes referred to as CESH (chromatic embellishment of static harmony) or a "jazz cliche". The important part of that chord sequence is really bringing out the C-B-Bb-(A?) of the first 3 (or 4-I'm not looking at it) chords. The sequence, when played as-written Cm-CmMaj7-Cm7-(Cm6?) is a beast, in terms of beginner chord sequences.

If you have a copy of William Leavitt's modern method for guitar, I think vol 2 works through several different versions of fingerings for these progressions. You eventually need to know them cold.

It's cool to learn it with the C bass pedal at some point, but many players would also sub G+ or G7#5 for the CmMaj7, as they are basically the same chord, minus the bass. It works fine if you're not emphasizing the bass throughout the progression and/or you omit the bass for the G+/G7#5 chord. Just make sure that, however it's voiced, it retains the chromatic lead line: C-B-Bb etc.

[Boston Joe]

Matt's point is well taken. In this case the mM7 thing is part of the descending chromatic movement.

The other context in which you'll see mM7 chords is as a tonic minor. It's somewhat more common to see a m6 chord serving this function, but one should probably be aware that mM7 is the I chord in harmonic and melodic minor.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Play Stairway, dude. The second chord is Am9(Maj7).

[dconeill]

It's the diatonic i7 chord of the harmonic minor scale, intervals m3-M3-M3. E.g., C-Eb-G-B.

Compare to the diatonic i7 chord of the natural minor scale, intervals m3-M3-m3. E.g., C-Eb-G-Bb.

[RonDen]

Thanks,
You are right Matt guitar teacher.
Not the easiest first song..
After spending at least 2 hours to try MY arrangement of Valentine
I figured that out.
I thought that since it was slow... it would be easier to make my own version of it.
I am afraid it is a bit pretentious as I do not even know a tune yet.
There are just too many, I like this song so I learn some of the chords
then, of course, I like this one also so I learn some of the chords on that one.
I'm sure you have all noticed that I am just starting out, not on guitar but jazz.
It is like a whirlwind, and not getting anywhere that way.
I can practice for one to 3 hours daily on and off and at the end of the day, week...
I have only learned a few more chords that I can play somewhat well; but that's it
Ronald

[Boston Joe]

Thanks,
You are right Matt guitar teacher.
Not the easiest first song..
After spending at least 2 hours to try MY arrangement of Valentine
I figured that out.
I thought that since it was slow... it would be easier to make my own version of it.
I am afraid it is a bit pretentious as I do not even know a tune yet.
There are just too many, I like this song so I learn some of the chords
then, of course, I like this one also so I learn some of the chords on that one.
I'm sure you have all noticed that I am just starting out, not on guitar but jazz.
It is like a whirlwind, and not getting anywhere that way.
I can practice for one to 3 hours daily on and off and at the end of the day, week...
I have only learned a few more chords that I can play somewhat well; but that's it
Ronald

Ronald, I think that you'd get more out of an organized practice plan. It's hard to learn jazz in a casual way. Scales (Major, Harmonic Minor, Melodic minor, whole tone and diminished), Chords (Start with drop-2 voicings), and songs (learn the entire song, including all the chords, the melody, and the lyrics, if it has them). If you really want to get deep, learn every tune in all 12 keys, too.

[Binyomin]

Matt's point is well taken. In this case the mM7 thing is part of the descending chromatic movement.

The other context in which you'll see mM7 chords is as a tonic minor. It's somewhat more common to see a m6 chord serving this function, but one should probably be aware that mM7 is the I chord in harmonic and melodic minor.

But maybe the better part of valor sometimes is just to leave the 7th off and play the triad minor for the i chord? The whole 4-note chord can sound bad.

[christianm77]

But maybe the better part of valor sometimes is just to leave the 7th off and play the triad minor for the i chord? The whole 4-note chord can sound bad.

My approach is not worry about it, and play minor stuff over the minor chord. Id I want a more modal sound I'll lower the 7th, raise it for a more melodic minor sound. Sometimes I'll play a line that goes V-Im-V-Im over a static minor. These things are all very common practice. Changes aren't set in stone.

No one has yet complained and I continue to get paid gigs, so it presumably works.

If you have an extended m7 or m6/maj7 type sound in tunes like Nica's Dream, you need to be able to hear that, but in general minors in bop language often have descending line cliche 7s (y'know 1-7-b7-6 kind of deal) or freely move between both sounds.

Actually, if you listen to Wes play Nica's Dream, he freely uses both minor7ths and maj7ths over the first two chords. The one thing he doesn't do, however, is lower the 6th.

As an accompanist, you need to be able to distinguish both sounds and back up what the soloist - not hard, actually. Play 6/9 or m6 (or min triad) if in doubt. PS: be careful about m6 on chord iii. I have been told off about that :-)

Another one - play whole tone over the m(maj7) - in this case we hear it as a aug triad on the 7th. Try it.

[christianm77]

What Wes does on Bbm(maj7) Abm(maj7)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ0ybQnhsvc

[christianm77]

The other thing that the major 7th is often used as a non-harmonic tone in passing or as an enclosure over any kind of minor chord. You will hear this all the time.

[Boston Joe]

If you have an extended m7 or m6/maj7 type sound in tunes like Nica's Dream, you need to be able to hear that, but in general minors in bop language often have descending line cliche 7s (y'know 1-7-b7-6 kind of deal) or freely move between both sounds.

Actually, if you listen to Wes play Nica's Dream, he freely uses both minor7ths and maj7ths over the first two chords. The one thing he doesn't do, however, is lower the 6th.

I do the same thing. An older guy at a jam session told me once to use the Maj7 over m7 chords. I thought he was nuts at first, but I tried it and it sounded good.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

As an accompanist, you need to be able to distinguish both sounds and back up what the soloist - not hard, actually. Play 6/9 or m6 (or min triad) if in doubt. PS: be careful about m6 on chord iii. I have been told off about that :-)

Sometimes I used to play just a triad (major or minor). In those spots I'm now playing Add2 chords and it seems to always work:

Amin(Add2): x02415
CMaj(Add2): xx2533

The Add2 chord is sometimes a natural result of voice leading, too:

G7#5b9: xx3444
CMaj(Add2): xx2533

[Generalmojo]

The labeling system that creates minMaj7 is just a matter of the problem we have with "m" and the flat sign.

Major chord with a flat seven? Gb7! Oh wait. That could be a Gb chord with a seven.

Okay then. A "minor seven" right so Gm7. Oh wait. That sounds like a G minor chord with a 7.

Okay. So a normal 7 will be a "Maj7" and a flat 7 will just be a "7."

Gmaj7 = 1357
G7 = 135b7
Gm7 = 1 b3 5 b7
GmMaj7 = 1 b3 5 7




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Boston Joe]

I like the little triangle thingy for indicating the major seventh. "G-Δ" seems less cumbersome than GminMaj7 and less ambiguous.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

I like the little triangle thingy for indicating the major seventh. "G-Δ" seems less cumbersome than GminMaj7 and less ambiguous.

You must have some fancy college boy keyboard. I don't see a triangle on mine

[Boston Joe]

You must have some fancy college boy keyboard. I don't see a triangle on mine

Start menu > All programs > Accessories > System tools > Character map. (on Windows. There's probably a keyboard shortcut for it on Mac).

[Ray Arigho]

Start menu > All programs > Accessories > System tools > Character map. (on Windows. There's probably a keyboard shortcut for it on Mac).

Less cumbersome, eh?

[Boston Joe]

Less cumbersome, eh?

To read. Not to type. (iReal uses the carat character (^) to make the major seventh symbol.)

[Generalmojo]

I find this most helpful.

Pencil > paper.

Too bad I have horrible handwriting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KirkP]

Here's a different take on Nica's Dream by Wes Montgomery where starting has 1:28 he comps with a line cliché mocing chromatically from the root downward to the 6th, first on a Bbmin chord then Abmin. It's interesting to compare to the version someone posted earlier.