How do you see the first few bars of Autumn Leaves ?

[Cunamara]

The first 4 bars are: A- / D7 / Gmaj7 / Cmaj7

is A- / D7 - Gmaj7 a ii / V7 / I7

or do you see A- / D7 / Gmaj7 / Cmaj7 as VI / ii / V7/ I7 ?

and how do you view the next 4 bars ?

Fsharpm7flat5 / B7 / Em / Em

ii / V ( in E ) / ii / ii ( in D ) ?

Thanks

I see it as a ii-V-I in G. The Cmaj7 is a sort of pivot chord leading to the next harmonic function. To my ears this is clearly in G (one sharp) because the best sounding tension note on the C is #11 (which is F#). If you examine a Cmaj7 you will see that it shares three notes with Emin (E G B).

The next harmonic function is in Emin: this is a standard minor ii-V-i function. Indeed, this progression occurs in so many jazz tunes that it is absolutely essential to understand and master it. It is composed of the ii chord, which is a half-diminished or m7b5 chord, followed by a V chord and then the i chord.

Emin and G of course share the same key signature. But in the minor ii-V-i the V has a note not in the key signature: the 3rd. In Emin, the V chord is B7, which is B D# F# A. The D# is not in the key signature; this is what gives the minor ii-V-i it's unique tension and resolution in this song.

What a great tune to discuss!

[brwnhornet59]

Emin and G of course share the same key signature. But in the minor ii-V-i the V has a note not in the key signature: the 3rd. In Emin, the V chord is B7, which is B D# F# A. The D# is not in the key signature; this is what gives the minor ii-V-i it's unique tension and resolution in this song.

What a great tune to discuss!

That is presuming that E- is the relative minor of G...

Minor is its own template. It is the norm to use D# letting you open up HM and MM into this mix...I view the tune as being in E-. One does not have to play E-M7 to substantiate key, but it is always desired to have the V chord major, in this case B7... You may choose to add the b9 or b13 (E HM), which you indeed see in the bridge. F#-7b5 B7b9 / E-...You may play E-, E-6 or even E-7 with no ill effects to the harmony. Or during the chorus you may treat B7 as B7b13 (E MM) For something different. Limiting yourself to G leaves you very little choices. You might as well not analyze it at all and just play chord tones and chromatics...

[randalljazz]

for all you who aspire to play with others, you should know that although E minor/G major is the original key (and in the old, illegal real book), most of the rest of the jazz world plays it in G minor/Bb major (blame this on miles). draw your own conclusions.

[Cunamara]

That is presuming that E- is the relative minor of G...

Minor is its own template. It is the norm to use D# letting you open up HM and MM into this mix...I view the tune as being in E-. One does not have to play E-M7 to substantiate key, but it is always desired to have the V chord major, in this case B7... You may choose to add the b9 or b13 (E HM), which you indeed see in the bridge. F#-7b5 B7b9 / E-...You may play E-, E-6 or even E-7 with no ill effects to the harmony. Or during the chorus you may treat B7 as B7b13 (E MM) For something different. Limiting yourself to G leaves you very little choices. You might as well not analyze it at all and just play chord tones and chromatics...

Gee all the music theory books claim that Emin is the relative minor of G... and all those composers use the same one sharp key signature.

Of course, as I pointed out, there is a difference between G and Emin which saavy players attend to and exploit.

This chart is in one sharp which is both G and Emin, mostly in alternating four bar phrases. Trying to pretend that it is in one or the other creates problems.

[MarkRhodes]

for all you who aspire to play with others, you should know that although E minor/G major is the original key (and in the old, illegal real book), most of the rest of the jazz world plays it in G minor/Bb major (blame this on miles). draw your own conclusions.

That's the way I learned it, from Aebersold's vol. 54, "Maiden Voyage." In his note at the top of the page (-this book is aimed at beginning improvisers), he says, "This song tends to hang around G-."

[fep]

I've played it with a few vocalists and quickly realized I need to be able to play it in any key.

[JakeAcci]

I've played it with a few vocalists and quickly realized I need to be able to play it in any key.

Yes. I think Autumn Leaves is probably THE simplest commonly played jazz tune, really important to be able to do it in every key as all the changes within the tune repeat in most other standards.

[brwnhornet59]

Gee all the music theory books claim that Emin is the relative minor of G... and all those composers use the same one sharp key signature.

Of course, as I pointed out, there is a difference between G and Emin which saavy players attend to and exploit.

This chart is in one sharp which is both G and Emin, mostly in alternating four bar phrases. Trying to pretend that it is in one or the other creates problems.

Did anyone say that E-7 is not the relative minor of G? What was said is that looking at the pools of notes from where the harmonies are drawn from dictates the key, which is E-...How you choose to approach these changes becomes very limited if one does not dig deeper into the true nature of Minor.

[Mike A]

i view it as ii V I IV major and then ii V Im

i also mainly play it in Bb/Gm key. I also like to see the whole thing as a minor key and float over the changes and include all kinds of ideas coming from different harmonic viewpoints.

it is a tune i can get bored of quite quickly too... i like the bridge ii V's (Gm7 C7 Fm7 Bb7)

[GuitarOrb]

The best way to figure out the key is to use your ear.

Play the chords sing the melody, hear where it resolves.

I sure don't hear a tonal center resolution at the G chord, my ear says the whole thing is in Em.

Phrasing and structure are affecting the way one hears key centers.

Until I read this thread I saw this progression the same way Tom did, alternating between the major and relative minor, but fep's comment here has changed my opinion. When I listen to it, I don't hear the Gmaj as resolving to the tonic, so I guess I think fep is right.

[brwnhornet59]

When I listen to it, I don't hear the Gmaj as resolving to the tonic

Look at the last chord of the tune...That will usually tell you the key.

[frajazzamico]

Definitely as A- / D7 - Gmaj7 a ii / V7 / I7
It's a II-V progression in G...simple as that...