Toughest Guitar Chord To Play

**whatswisdom** · 07-20-2011, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by AlohaJoe

John Miller at the Acoustic Blues Workshop in Port Townsend.

Even the toy on the table was amazed!

That ain't nothin' ... there's a picture of Robert Fripp I saw somewhere. He's playing a chord that has (at least) a seven-fret stretch from the first fret. It looks like his hand is dislocated and, of course, he's got a business as usual expression on his face...

This is fun. Keep those chords comin', folks. We'll have a cool "tough chord" manual eventually. It would be nice too to hear from more of the pros on this subject. Reg, do you have any tough chord pet peeves? Tricks up your sleeve? ...

**brwnhornet59** · 07-20-2011, 11:13 AM

Kmans voicing. (Actually Bill Evans from Very Early) Ab13b9

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I would not finger this chord like this.

This makes more sense to me. Barre the whole 4th fret with your index.

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**JohnW400** · 07-20-2011, 11:35 AM

Whatever fingering works, But, how do you deaden the 5th? I think John McLaughlin uses his thumb on the 6th.

I got accustomed to it from this pattern G7#9 - C13b9 -F7#9 Bb13b9.

[CHORD] G7 /F7

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[/CHORD]

[CHORD] C/Bb

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[/CHORD]

**whatswisdom** · 07-20-2011, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by whatswisdom

Can someone give me a name for this one? It's an awesome chord but drives me crazy when I have to play it higher up the fingerboard.[chord]

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[/chord]

So...of these 2 answers that have been given: C7#11; C9#11,... which is the preferred spelling? (Assuming the root is lowest note.) I know the D is the 9th. It's just that I don't recall seeing C9#11 before. C7#11 is very familiar to me ...

**brwnhornet59** · 07-20-2011, 11:43 AM

But, how do you deaden the 5th?

Me personally? I pick the 6th string with my pick, and pluck the bottom 4 with my fingers. That is a habit I developed long ago. Makes things easier when you can grab just the notes you want, when you want them.

But as you said, whatever works. Nothing wrong with using your left hand thumb to articulate.

**brwnhornet59** · 07-20-2011, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by whatswisdom

So...of these 2 answers that have been given: C7#11; C9#11,... which is the preferred spelling? (Assuming the root is lowest note.) I know the D is the 9th. It's just that I don't recall seeing C9#11 before. C7#11 is very familiar to me ...

That chord structure is based on the 4th mode of MM. Lydian b7. Great chord and great sound. You should try and build all of the chords from MM. Extend them out to the 13th. Very dark and interesting. Your ears will acclimate to the sounds once you start incorporating the harmonic structure.

It is a 9#11

**whatswisdom** · 07-20-2011, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by brwnhornet59

That chord structure is based on the 4th mode of MM. Lydian b7. Great chord and great sound. You should try and build all of the chords from MM. Extend them out to the 13th. Very dark and interesting. Your ears will acclimate to the sounds once you start incorporating the harmonic structure. It is a 9#11

Great advice, thanks. I've been going up and down MM scale stepwise (all modes) a lot in all keys to get used to the sound ...

**Kman** · 07-20-2011, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by whatswisdom

Can someone give me a name for this one? It's an awesome chord but drives me crazy when I have to play it higher up the fingerboard. [chord]

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[/chord]

One of Wes's favorites, but he did not play the root:

C7#11 or Gb7#5

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**brwnhornet59** · 07-20-2011, 12:09 PM

I've been going up and down MM scale stepwise (all modes) a lot in all keys to get used to the sound ...

Excellent. Also, explore the multiple possibilities with fingerings. MM has some cool intervals. The easier fingerings will have you playing 3 note per string, with a 2 note per string here and there. I will always find a way to find 3 notes per string on every string. This involves either dipping into the structure preceding or impending. It is an invaluable way, IMO, to utilize the scale and learn all of the possibilities. It also helps you to recognize it in a strange environment. I know I am having a blast learning this scale and internalizing it in this way.

**brwnhornet59** · 07-20-2011, 12:16 PM

BTW, wisdom. Another way that has helped me get the scale into my brain is not cycle up and down in its key center. Stay at the same tone but apply the different modes to the same tone. You will be changing keys 7 times. Was very helpful to me.

**whatswisdom** · 07-20-2011, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by brwnhornet59

...not cycle up and down in its key center. Stay at the same tone but apply the different modes to the same tone. You will be changing keys 7 times.

Sounds fab! Could you maybe give me an example to get the ball rolling? C MM?

**brwnhornet59** · 07-20-2011, 01:13 PM

Sure, that's it.

CMM

C dorian b2

C Lydian #5

C Lydian b7

C mixolydian b6

C locrain natural 2

C alt. (locrain b4)

**barrymclark** · 07-20-2011, 01:41 PM

What is funny is, since starting on jazz in earnest maybe a couple years or so ago (I tooled around for quite some time before that), the chords I NEVER thought I'd get are now second nature and I have a whole new crop of chords I will NEVER get. haha.

I remember when some basic chords were just a pain! I remember thinking that:

--------|--------|--------|--------|--------|--------
--------|--------|--------|---4----|--------|--------
--------|--------|---2----|--------|--------|--------
--------|--------|--------|---3----|--------|--------
--------|---1----|--------|--------|--------|--------
--------|--------|--------|--------|--------|--------

Was just impossible!

Then:

--------|--------|--------|--------|--------|--------
--------|---1----|--------|--------|--------|--------
--------|--------|--------|---4----|--------|--------
--------|--------|---2----|--------|--------|--------
--------|--------|--------|---3----|--------|--------
--------|--------|--------|--------|--------|--------

Was just never going to get this one. haha. There was just always that stray finger that didn't want to land where I wanted. haha.

Now, I do have a limitation is that my fingers will not bend backwards so some chords are just not going to be in my wheel house. I will just have to figure a workaround when I come to those in my studies.

Right now I am working through the maj7, min7 and dom7 chords in Drop2-3 and their inversions.

There are still a couple chords that I have a finger that just doesn't want to work with me on. haha.

This one:

--------|--------|--------|--------|--------|--------
--------|--------|---2----|--------|--------|--------
--------|--------|--------|---4----|--------|--------
--------|---1----|--------|--------|--------|--------
--------|--------|--------|--------|--------|--------
--------|--------|--------|---3----|--------|--------

Is an example. My middle finger just doesn't want to land on the b-string. Keeps trying for the G string and hope I don't notice. haha.

It will eventually. I am fighting 20+ years of bad habits. So... it will come in time.

I am hoping when I transfer to KSU (Yeah, I am one of the oldest students) I can get on with their jazz band. That'd be awesome.

**whatswisdom** · 07-20-2011, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by barrymclark

--------|--------|--------|--------|--------|--------
--------|--------|---2----|--------|--------|--------
--------|--------|--------|---4----|--------|--------
--------|---1----|--------|--------|--------|--------
--------|--------|--------|--------|--------|--------
--------|--------|--------|---3----|--------|--------

Is an example. My middle finger just doesn't want to land on the b-string.

For the tough ones, the one thing that's helped me to no end is to play them super-slow as arps. Imagine your hand as a spider taking s-l-o-w Giant Steps (pun, sorry). Funny, some of the toughest chords then seem attainable...

**barrymclark** · 07-20-2011, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by whatswisdom

For the tough ones, the one thing that's helped me to no end is to play them super-slow as arps. Imagine your hand as a spider taking s-l-o-w Giant Steps (pun, sorry). Funny, some of the toughest chords then seem attainable...

THanks! I will give that a crack. I would let my fingers settle like that before striking the chords... but I can see how actually playing them as an arp' will help. Thanks!

**mr. beaumont** · 07-20-2011, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by whatswisdom

So...of these 2 answers that have been given: C7#11; C9#11,... which is the preferred spelling? (Assuming the root is lowest note.) I know the D is the 9th. It's just that I don't recall seeing C9#11 before. C7#11 is very familiar to me ...

Well, if you put an 11th in the spelling, it's implied that the ninth can be in there.

C9#11 is more exacting, saying, "put that ninth in there!" C7#11 suggests, "give me a dominant sound with a raised 11th." So basically, it's the difference between saying, "hey, put the ninth in there if you like" or "put the ninth in there."

Unless there's a very specific sound I want, I usually go with the most stripped down way to write a chord and trust the player to use their ears (and best judgement)

**GuyB** · 07-20-2011, 04:00 PM

I'm just wandering, does'nt C9#11 imply that there could be a natural 5th ? I would call this chord C9b5.

**brwnhornet59** · 07-20-2011, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by GuyB

I'm just wandering, does'nt C9#11 imply that there could be a natural 5th ? I would call this chord C9b5.

There is a perfect 5th. G

That is why it is called Lydian b7

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 07-20-2011, 04:36 PM

I agree with '59. Often, laziness rules in the naming of chords, and a #11 gets called a b5. Finding what scale you'd play over it usually tells you it's actually a #11.

Here my favourite #11 with a 5th chord, a Maj7(#11).

Code:

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