Piano trio vs guitar trio

[2bornot2bop]

Yes, and sometimes only one note, but let's say that piano player has got a potential to play 10 notes.

Now we need a lyrical interlude, by a piano trio from Sweden!

EST, go ahead!

Seriously? That’s your idea of a piano player?

[Litterick]

Esbjörn Svensson died scuba diving; not a jazz way to go.

[Herbie]

Seriously? That’s your idea of a piano player?

There is so many kinds of piano players that I leave the choice of notes to them! I know that often the left hand plays a triad and often the right hand plays one note melody which makes four notes.

But most piano players have ten fingers so mathematically it is the maximum amount of notes at one time. That was my only idea when I wrote that.

[Herbie]

Esbjörn Svensson died scuba diving; not a jazz way to go.

Yes, tragic accident in 2008.

In 2005 the EST played in Tampere Jazz Happening and I am happy that I was there.

[Christian Miller]

EST were a great band, and IMO Esbjorn a quite brilliant musician gone too young. It's one of my regrets that I never heard them live.

[Christian Miller]

Here he is playing burning shit on rhythm changes, for people who need their musicians to tick check boxes

[2bornot2bop]

There is so many kinds of piano players that I leave the choice of notes to them! I know that often the left hand plays a triad and often the right hand plays one note melody which makes four notes.

But most piano players have ten fingers so mathematically it is the maximum amount of notes at one time. That was my only idea when I wrote that.

Actually, if you’re playing jazz the left hand could be doing a multitude of different things. But likely not a triad. A tritone perhaps, but never a triad. The right hand could be playing a triad as an upper structure voicing, containing a #11, 13, 9, etc. But not the left.

[Christian Miller]

Actually, if you’re playing jazz the left hand could be doing a multitude of different things. But likely not a triad. A tritone perhaps, but never a triad. The right hand could be playing a triad as an upper structure voicing, containing a #11, 13, 9, etc. But not the left.

I've read a lot of silly shit on this forum, but this takes the biscuit.

[2bornot2bop]

I've read a lot of silly shit on this forum, but this takes the biscuit.

It’s the truth. If you’re doing a jazz voicing you’re not doing triads in the left hand, especially if you’re comping. You’re likely using 4th voicings.

[Clint 55]

I use triads a lot when I'm practicing because I like to use all types of voicings from basic harmony all the way through mega altered. If I were playing with a group, I would be embarrassed if I used them consistently tho haha. Just use them to punctuate certain areas. Most pianists wouldn't view playing basic triads as part of the idiom I don't think. As in comping with the triad of the chord and not using them in an upper structure or melodic shape sort of way.

[2bornot2bop]

I use triads a lot when I'm practicing because I like to use all types of voicings from basic harmony all the way through mega altered. If I were playing with a group, I would be embarrassed if I used them consistently tho haha. Just use them to punctuate certain areas.

They’re common in the right hand as extensions. But not in the left. As you say, a left handed triad would be frowned upon because it’s not hip.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

As you say, a left handed triad would be frowned upon because it’s not hip.

It can be hip if used sparingly against a line in which the right hand note(s) are extensions of the triad - the combination forms an open (aka outside) inversion. Throw even a simple pentatonic line like F# G# A# C# D# over a C major triad and the sequence is 11th, +5th, 7th, flatted 9th, aug 9th. For example, this can be a cool transition phrase from dominant 7 (C in this example) to tonic major 7 (F) when playing this phrase as the last 5 quarter notes of a pair of triplets in the bar before the resolution to the tonic.

For another use that I think is cool, I like to throw in an occasional cross handed line when I'm on keyboard (piano or organ) that turns an ordinary left hand interval (even a simple triad) into the top of an inversion along with the right hand note(s) I'm playing below it.

Thee are no rules. Sometimes it's hip to be square

[2bornot2bop]

It can be hip if used sparingly against a line in which the right hand note(s) are extensions of the triad - the combination forms an open (aka outside) inversion. Throw even a simple pentatonic line like F# G# A# C# D# over a C major triad and the sequence is 11th, +5th, 7th, flatted 9th, aug 9th. For example, this can be a cool transition phrase from dominant 7 (C in this example) to tonic major 7 (F) when playing this phrase as the last 5 quarter notes of a pair of triplets in the bar before the resolution to the tonic.

For another use that I think is cool, I like to throw in an occasional cross handed line when I'm on keyboard (piano or organ) that turns an ordinary left hand interval (even a simple triad) into the top of an inversion along with the right hand note(s) I'm playing below it.

Thee are no rules. Sometimes it's hip to be square

I hear your preferences. But what I don’t hear are triads on professional recordings. And definitely not on Keith Jarrett recordings, and Keith is an accomplished Classical player.

[matt.guitarteacher]

Learn a little piano.

Current conversation trending mostly theoretical... as if one doesn't actually PLAY any piano. That's cool. Just maybe don't talk as if...

[2bornot2bop]

Learn a little piano.

Current conversation trending mostly theoretical... as if one doesn't actually PLAY any piano. That's cool. Just maybe don't talk as if...

Yes, especially when you’re talking to a piano player for the last 35 years.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I hear your preferences. But what I don’t hear are triads on professional recordings. And definitely not on Keith Jarrett recordings, and Keith is an accomplished Classical player.

I don't think that's a reason not to do it. Many things were never heard on professional recordings until they were. The first one to do it is an innovator. The second is an imitator.

[2bornot2bop]

I don't think that's a reason not to do it. Many things were never heard on professional recordings until they were. The first one to do it is an innovator. The second is an imitator.

Well, let’s hear it for innovation!

[Clint 55]

It's kind of true. Left hand triads basically aren't part of the idiom. You hear them occasionally on recordings depending on what you're listening to. Mod can accept triads because that can create the sound that they go for. Old skool stuff you almost never hear them. I use them because it's part of my style to sometimes be in the mode of just playing the song instead of it being 'a jazz song'. Or I'll use them in jazz to emphasize a tonic. I think in general, if you went to play real book with a combo and sat down and used a bunch of triads, people would be like gtfo lol. Or at least be thinking it.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Well, let’s hear it for innovation!

"If Bird was alive, this would kill him."

[jazzkritter]

FWIW my first 3-4 lessons with Tal he had made some cassettes for me of Dave McKenna, Art Tatum, George Shearing and some private stuff of Eddie DeCosta. We spent that time, no guitar in hand, him pointing out what he really dug in the harmonies and solo runs, asking what I heard. He tied it all to how they handled their bass line as support and drive for everything above.
Cool approach to chord melody 101.

Group I played in, piano, me, drums in rehearsal the pianist and I would map our strategy out for not falling all over each other, bass, comping, etc. Get to the gig and somehow she managed to forget everything. Or didn’t care). We did some church work together and of course, same darn thing.

jk

[Christian Miller]

It’s the truth. If you’re doing a jazz voicing you’re not doing triads in the left hand, especially if you’re comping. You’re likely using 4th voicings.

There are quite a few ways to go about it. There’s more to life than what you read in some textbook.

Listen to Bud’s left hand for instance. Or Errol Garner… Or for that matter Brad Mehldau who often favours triadic harmony. Or bloody Keith Jarrett for that matter.

This is silly. Good musicians can do what they want.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Good musicians can do what they want.

Any musician can do what he or she wants. It just works out better for some than others

[Christian Miller]

Any musician can do what he or she wants. It just works out better for some than others

Sure. You have to be able to hear what you play. Sometimes what’s needed is a straight minor chord for instance. Sometimes a m(add9). Sometimes it’s m(maj)9. Sometimes it’s a non tertial intervallic cluster built out of the melodic minor pitch set. You are playing music based on your ear, your vocabulary and your taste. The more you play and LISTEN the better you get at making these musical calls.

Left hand shell voicings + right hand extensions sound good and believably ‘jazz’, and they are taught to beginners for a reason, but to 1) imagine that this is how all jazz pianists played all of the time and 2) negatively critique a jazz musician of the modern period in the basis of what is ‘babas first modern jazz piano’ is so crushingly silly that it actually annihilates my brain.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

to 1) imagine that this is how all jazz pianists played all of the time and 2) negatively critique a jazz musician of the modern period in the basis of what is ‘babas first modern jazz piano’ is so crushingly silly that it actually annihilates my brain.

For sure! The spectrum of possibilities is huge, so the goal for me is to evolve by learning and mastering one or two new things at a time. After 65+ years of playing, I may have reached the 5% mark in that spectrum - but tonight’s another gig!

Unfortunately, many well known musicians find a sound, style, or even a trick or two that makes them commercially successful and/or in popular demand. So they stop evolving and start playing that way all the time - and so do their acolytes. If I weren’t such a positive person, this might even make me a little sad.

[2bornot2bop]

There are quite a few ways to go about it. There’s more to life than what you read in some textbook.

Listen to Bud’s left hand for instance. Or Errol Garner… Or for that matter Brad Mehldau who often favours triadic harmony. Or bloody Keith Jarrett for that matter.

This is silly. Good musicians can do what they want.

Your making zero sense. Did McCoy Tyner play triads? And why was that? Because the juice as a jazz pianist is in 4th’s. End of story. Now carry on with your diatribe about triads!