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  1. #1

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    Hi guys,

    I am contemplating to do some solo gig with a little help from my computer, but I am concern with the quality of backing tracks I have I use BIAB a lot to practice but I don't think is good enough for live gigs. I mainly play jazz standard along with bossa nova type of tune, can you suggest me a good quality backing tracks for this type of music?

    Thanks for your help
    Sandro
    Last edited by Sandro; 10-28-2014 at 10:30 PM.

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  3. #2

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    No backing tracks are good for live gigs.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    No backing tracks are good for live gigs.
    I was afraid of this answer

  5. #4

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    There's nothing wrong with using backing tracks for live gigs. Try jazzbacks or Bobby's Backing Tracks, both are good quality. Just get out there and play, don't listen to all the other nonsense.

  6. #5

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    BIAB is fine because the audience doesn't know the difference or care. When solo you're what they see and focus on and backing tracks are just filling in some bass and a beat for them.
    No, I'm not going to give you the answer to your question. I don't want to deny you the pleasure you'll receive when you figure it out yourself. -- Bill Evans talking to his brother.

  7. #6

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    For some small terrible cafe gigs that are like busking gigs, or where you're on a street corner playing for tips - sure. Whatever works. Backing tracks. I think it's incredibly lame, but so what? Whatever you can do to get a gig, fine. I have a very good friend, a sax player who I've played with for many years and who played in my band for many years, who says he's done several gigs using Jamey Abersold play-a-longs.

  8. #7

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    Guitar players have no excuse. We got a mini orchestra on our lap. You wanna gig by yourself, learn how to use it. You ain't gotta be Joe Pass.

    I saw a guy advertised as a "jazz guitarist" at a local wine bar a few weeks ago. Tracks. Cheesy ones too. Played the melody, didn't even improvise. Did horrid crap midi arrangements of tunes like "Feelin' Good" and "Rhythm is Gonna Get You."

    I was gonna drop off a CD and a business card, but I knew I never had a chance.

    I knew a great piano player once pressured into using tracks...he had a steady, had surgery, was out for a bit, came back and the owner happily gave him his steady back...then said (insert thick accent of your choice here)

    "Some guys while you gone...they have the recordings, you know? It's like whole group for price of one musician! You maybe get the recordings?"
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by docbop View Post
    You're forgetting in this economy for many its called paying your bills. A place can't afford a group they hire a solo musician, but audience still want more of a group sound. Do you feel the same about solo musicians with looper pedals a lot of that where I live. It's weird here guys doing solo Blues/Rock with a loopers, but little places can only afford a solo artist. So can be an artist and starve or go out and make some money playing even if it's solo with looper or backup tracks.

    Personally I think using a looper on a gig gets old fast, and would rather hear solo or with a backing track.
    This is exactly where I am at, no able to book a full band, money are just too little to share, and I need a little extra to put food on the table, but I am concern with the quality of my product and I want to make sure I can offer the best I can with what I have, starting with the quality of the backing tracks.

    Regarding the chord melody thing I don't know about you guys but I don't know enough chord melody tunes to go on for 3 or 4 hours you need at list 50 tunes but most important is not the right venue for that, this are not gig where I showcase my technical ability, I will play a few chord melody tunes for sure but only to give a break to the listener from the backing tracks, also I will use a Roland GR33 for some different sounds like trumpet, piano, flute and more just to keep thing interesting to the listener.

    Thank you all for your feed back and keep on coming please.

    Sandro

  10. #9

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    Just mime to "Kind of Blue" with a plastic trumpet, there's no real need to learn an instrument.
    “I will not let anyone walk through my mind with their dirty feet.”
    ― Mahatma Gandhi

  11. #10

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    Let's face it, live musicians are a disposable breed, it's cheaper to fire up the ol' jukebox, and that's what the musician's union has been trying to warn about since the dawn of recording. Beware, you will be replaced by technology.

  12. #11

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    Backing tracks in jazz club it is not good idea but in the restaurant who knows...:-)

  13. #12

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    ^^^^ that is something NO OTHER INSTRUMENT CAN DO. We are the ONLY instrument that can fit into the tiniest corners of the tiniest restaurant and play the quietest music in the quietest room ALONE.....

    Perhaps you have forgotten that perennial haute culture restaurant favorite - the bagpipes!

  14. #13

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    A very real and controversial issue and technology is enfluencing the performing marketplace. Singles and duos now replace bands with more $ per performer and less overhead for owner/operator. A band has to have something special happening to justify the expense. I.e. A strong following. I can do about an hour of chord melody. That is where I am. I am constantly improving in that regard because that is my passion right now. But that is where I am. I do my own backing tracks on a looper. I play the bass lines and comp with either keys or guitar. This makes me much more versatile and marketable. I can make $150 for ninety minutes. The valid argument is that I cheated a bass and piano guy out of work. But you won't find a bass or piano person around here willing or capable of playing that kind of music for fifty bucks. It is what it is and I will not stay home and play for the cat and dog if backing tracks allow me the opportunity of playing my music for others. Eventually I WILL be able to do three hours of solo chord melody. I think I will always have the looper and my own backing tracks available just to fulfill a request I may not have mastered yet. It is called customer service and gets you asked back.

  15. #14

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    Keoki, just curious. Do you find it hard to find restaurant or wine tastings or other gigs where you can play chord / melody style tunes with your looper? I'm wondering how you find these gigs or do you have an agent?

  16. #15

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    Let's put it this way. As a solo performer, when I use my 'backing tracks' that I create with Sibelius, I can provide a bass, percussion, and piano accompaniment, over which I play guitar and can sing the melody "live". Rather than thinking of this as a limitation of improvisation possibilities, I think it expands one's options. Nor is it something one has to do with each and every tune. One can play solo chord melody for certain tunes, like My Funny Valentine, eg. But with others, especially up tempo tunes like There Will Never Be Another You, or a song like Georgian On My Mind, one can expand the soundstage. In effect, I see no advantage or 'more virtuous character' to using a looper over employing tracks that I have created to provide rhythm support. (No criticism of the use of loopers specifically intended - more a matter of 'technical difficulty' in execution.) If anything, it is less complicated and more secure.

    And I think that the performance context matters a lot. In a situation in which you are 'background music' like a restaurant or wine tasting gig, delivering a more complete soundstage is not analogous to lipsynching. It is delivering the product in such a way that the customer or consumer will hire you again. For that matter I think it is far less deceptive or deceitful than using Autotune to sterilize vocals that are off key. That is truly despicable. And no, I would not try to pull it off in a jazz club. Remember what those were?

    Jay

  17. #16

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    "where can I get some good backing tracks?"

    as Targuit says, I make my own. It's easy. If you can actually play jazz at all, you can make your own.Then you get the exact tempos you want, the changes and keys you want, the sounds you want and so on.
    Last edited by markf; 10-30-2014 at 01:23 PM. Reason: edit

  18. #17

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    There's nothing inherently more entertaining about canned drums, bass, and piano. A performer is either entertaining or not.

    Some gigs are not about being entertaining anyway, they're about providing atmosphere.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  19. #18

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    Using a looper limits you in many ways but I like the way some people use them, especially vocalists. There seems to be a culture to it too. I'd guess many of us who wouldn't use backing tracks on a gig don't like them to begin with. I don't even use them at home.

  20. #19

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    If I want to work with pros with no "issues", it's a minimum of $50 or more per person per night PLUS rehearsal pay IF I'm lucky. That's okay for a special show at a bigger venue, and I've certainly contracted high-end musicians for those situations.

    But for a small club or restaurant gig where I might pull $250, I'm not spending $225 or more on hired guns, or paying less for sub-par "problem children" to put on a sloppy show.

    And many of my gigs start out as jazz standards dinner music and later morph into rockin dance parties if the audience is so inclined. Even in Los Angeles, to find a drummer, bassist, and piano/keys player who all three can and will go convincingly and consistently from Mercer to Motörhead and everything in between with a rock-solid repertoire of hundreds of songs across a dozen genres and will accept the kind of pay the small clubs and restaurants are willing to pay... well the odds are astronomical.

    Finally, I often get hired for situations where the venue owner or party planner wants a full sound and an entertaining front man/musician, but is explicit about NOT wanting a full band and the additional space/hassle/volume that implies.

    Backing tracks it is.
    Last edited by EightString; 10-30-2014 at 02:39 PM.

  21. #20

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    A lot of us have to cut corners more than we'd like to admit. I don't have enough material with just acoustic guitar and voice so I think I should add something else. I'll try looping. I'm not going to say hey, don't use backing tracks just because I don't like them personally.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    There's nothing inherently more entertaining about canned drums, bass, and piano. A performer is either entertaining or not.
    That sounds right to me. Without taking a stand on the backing tracks issue, it does seem likely to me that most listeners--both musically savvy and not--would tend to enjoy a solo guitarist mostly based on what he or she is actually playing and/or singing. I don't know if someone who's lackluster or doesn't have a real sense of swing/drive is going to sound a whole lot better with some midi tracks.

    But I don't think I've ever seen someone live with backing tracks. Maybe I'm wrong!

  23. #22

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    It's already been proven that musicians will stoop to anything to gig. So wear a clown costume and play backing tracks with circus music if it gets you a job, who gives a f#ck except some old school cats who feel ethically superior? If it's legal, make a buck and stay out of jail, it's all good. Don't wonder why your daughters get tattoos and become strippers...

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo View Post
    It's already been proven that musicians will stoop to anything to gig. So wear a clown costume and play backing tracks with circus music if it gets you a job, who gives a f#ck except some old school cats who feel ethically superior? If it's legal, make a buck and stay out of jail, it's all good. Don't wonder why your daughters get tattoos and become strippers...


    youre more than welcome to make jokes but this sort of thing has very real implications for musician pay. You are worth what you make yourself worth. If you're willing to devalue your craft you're by association devaluing the craft as a whole. If a restaurant owner can get you to make some crappy midi sounds to give the impression of a full band for $50 then guess what... A whole band is now worth $50 and you did that. It's not cool and word gets around. In an industry where your entire livelihood is based on networking and your rapport w other musicians this is something you should consider very carefully. So from a business standpoint it actually has very real negative consequences for you and for the industry as a whole. From a misical standpoint I quite frankly don't even know why this is a discussion.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by inwalkedbud View Post
    youre more than welcome to make jokes but this sort of thing has very real implications for musician pay. You are worth what you make yourself worth. If you're willing to devalue your craft you're by association devaluing the craft as a whole. If a restaurant owner can get you to make some crappy midi sounds to give the impression of a full band for $50 then guess what... A whole band is now worth $50 and you did that. It's not cool and word gets around. In an industry where your entire livelihood is based on networking and your rapport w other musicians this is something you should consider very carefully. So from a business standpoint it actually has very real negative consequences for you and for the industry as a whole. From a misical standpoint I quite frankly don't even know why this is a discussion.
    This is a big non-issue. Jazz clubs aren't going to hire anyone doing karokee jazz. No jazz clubs? It's the fault of the musicians if jazz is that unpopular and jazz clubs barely exist. I don't think it matters at all what people do on restaurant gigs.
    Jazz musicians generally don't want to compromise and play the kind of jazz that can draw the big spenders. They want to do exactly what they want to do and get paid but only a select few will succeed. It takes all genes of jazz to create a vibrant scene.
    I put the blame on where I think it should be- on the club owners for one, and also on the low expectations of the American audience. They never did respect musicians. Demographics and parenting also dictate much of what goes on in the music business.
    I don't blame the musicians.

  26. #25

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    I was recently in a situation where I was booked at an event to play solo "incidental" music in one hall for the evening.

    In an identical hall next door, full bands were booked for the event to play sets throughout the evening.

    Periodically over the mic I actively encouraged everyone to go and listen to the fine acts playing the stage next door, as that was intended to be the "main show".

    My hall at the event was full of people all evening. The other hall was almost empty for most of the evening.

    At one point, the headlining band from next door was seen watching me and one of its members was overheard to say, "That explains it. This guy is good. Damn good."

    I tell this story to underscore an assertion that I'm not "stealing gigs" from bands or "devaluing my craft" by doing shows my way. On the contrary. I demand a certain level of excellence for myself because I'm the singer. I'm the lead instrumentalist. And if I'm not cutting it, I have no one to look at or blame on stage but me, backing tracks or not.

    In that side-by-side situation, it was me as a front-man and performer "stealing" audience members. Not whether I used backing tracks or not. I would wager that it is me as a front-man and performer getting my gigs too.

  27. #26

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    Naw. I've thought about it. I did exactly I've gig where I used some Ableton Live tracks that augmented my live band. It was too much work. But for the most part it sounded great. I have thought that on occasion it might be interesting to break out a few tracks for a hip hop groove or something really modern. Not all night. Maybe three songs to break it up. I don't know. I'm less prone to feel peer pressure from jazz police assholes.

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
    Naw. I've thought about it. I did exactly I've gig where I used some Ableton Live tracks that augmented my live band. It was too much work. But for the most part it sounded great. I have thought that on occasion it might be interesting to break out a few tracks for a hip hop groove or something really modern. Not all night. Maybe three songs to break it up. I don't know. I'm less prone to feel peer pressure from jazz police assholes.

    You check out the major Pop and Rock artist have backstage keyboard player and people triggering samples, string parts, and so on. So its being done at all level from a solo person to fully bands. Thinking about it when I was on crew for that Yes tour in mid-70's we carried their studio mixing console on the road and three or four tape decks. In the mixing booth they were queuing up tapes and mixing them in with the band. I forget the name of Yes' producer back then he was on the road as lead mixer, the Roy Clair of Clair Brother audio and a few other from Clair Brothers. The FOH took up a lot space and they worked their asses off mixing every night.
    No, I'm not going to give you the answer to your question. I don't want to deny you the pleasure you'll receive when you figure it out yourself. -- Bill Evans talking to his brother.

  29. #28

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    Regardless of whether you play solo, with a group or with some kind of backing (tracks or loopers)... Can you draw and or keep a crowd? Or are you expecting the owner to do that? I have some great friends that can fill just about any place they go, and others that just get upset that the owner didn't do enough to get the place filled... I think you can do what you want, and grow your audience to the point that you can ask for enough money to pay a few additional people, but it is our responsibility to show the owners that we are worth the extra money. Their margins have gotten tighter and tighter over the years, and most restaurants and bars simply are not pulling the profits they used to even if the place is full. We need to show them that we are worth paying extra. So we need to do a better job at building our base of "followers" whether we play solo or with backing, and work on our craft (which many times is both music and entertainment).

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
    Naw. I've thought about it. I did exactly I've gig where I used some Ableton Live tracks that augmented my live band. It was too much work. But for the most part it sounded great. I have thought that on occasion it might be interesting to break out a few tracks for a hip hop groove or something really modern. Not all night. Maybe three songs to break it up. I don't know. I'm less prone to feel peer pressure from jazz police assholes.

    Forget software and computers. Beatbox your kick and snare, then layer the hat. You're done. I assume you're talking about a gig with no drummer and you want to add some variety.

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
    Naw. I've thought about it. I did exactly I've gig where I used some Ableton Live tracks that augmented my live band. It was too much work. But for the most part it sounded great. I have thought that on occasion it might be interesting to break out a few tracks for a hip hop groove or something really modern. Not all night. Maybe three songs to break it up. I don't know. I'm less prone to feel peer pressure from jazz police assholes.
    I'd like to make sure another distinction is being made.

    Using loops, sampling on the fly, computer generated sounds <- totally cool and absolutely NOT the same thing as using backing tracks. Using samples and electronic music, ambient sounds etc ... that implies some level of creativity. Backing tracks are just taking the sounds some other dudes recorded years ago and playing over them even though they have no musical interaction or common ground with you. Not the same things.

    One of the best concerts I've ever seen was Herbie Hancock solo. He sat in a rolling swivel chair surrounded by a grand piano, a couple electric keyboards, two computer monitors hooked up to MIDI keyboards and mixing boards. And of course a keytar. It was awesome. He actually improvised and would take sample on the fly and work them in with prerecorded samples and used all sorts of stuff to create insane soundscapes. Super cool. Computer music is great. Some people need electronic music to get the sounds in their head out. Using a backing track to solo over in a gig just means that you haven't learned a tune.

    I'd also like to say that I am not a jazz asshole. If you don't have enough solo tunes to make it through the gig... then sing some Bob Dylan. Seriously. Totally cool if you can do it in an unobtrusive way then awesome. Play the same tune a second time in the second set and try to stretch out if their aren't tons of people from the first set listening intently. Bring a book of classical pieces to read as filler. Work up arrangements of pop tunes. Sing some pop tunes... Go back through and sing a couple of the tunes you've done as solo guitar tunes... I could go on and on and of course you have to know what kind of place you're playing. I just don't see backing tracks as a reasonable alternative.

  32. #31

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    The only thing that I feel to say is that, music is an art form and is up to the single artist to express him/her self the way they wants, with a band, solo with baking tracks or a bunch of monkeys playing in the back ground, the only thing that really matters is if the artist sounds good is in if he doesn't he is out plain and sample, all the rest is just a bunch of words.

    Sandro

  33. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandro View Post
    The only thing that I feel to say is that, music is an art form and is up to the single artist to express him/her self the way they wants, with a band, solo with baking tracks or a bunch of monkeys playing in the back ground, the only thing that really matters is if the artist sounds good is in if he doesn't he is out plain and sample, all the rest is just a bunch of words.

    Sandro

    I'm going to risk a direct reply to this.

    First of all I apologize if I offended you personally but I do have strong feelings about this topic in general and most of my strong reactions were related to what others were saying in a conversation that strayed far from your original question.

    That said...

    It is about expression and it's up to the individual artist. But what exactly are you expressing when you decide to use a backing track for Satin Doll instead of taking the time to work up a rudimentary arrangement? I feel where you're coming from so I'll back off of this because it is an individual decision for you to express what you want how you want but that's something I think is worth considering. Do you want to use backing tracks because of an expressive preference or because of a lack of confidence in your ability as a solo guitar player?

  34. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by inwalkedbud View Post
    I'm going to risk a direct reply to this.

    First of all I apologize if I offended you personally but I do have strong feelings about this topic in general and most of my strong reactions were related to what others were saying in a conversation that strayed far from your original question.

    That said...

    It is about expression and it's up to the individual artist. But what exactly are you expressing when you decide to use a backing track for Satin Doll instead of taking the time to work up a rudimentary arrangement? I feel where you're coming from so I'll back off of this because it is an individual decision for you to express what you want how you want but that's something I think is worth considering. Do you want to use backing tracks because of an expressive preference or because of a lack of confidence in your ability as a solo guitar player?
    To be honest with you I get board to listen to solo guitar it doesn't matter if is Joe Pass or Lanny Bureau it's get hold very fast with me don't ask me why, I love them in a band situation but not so much on solo guitar again a few tunes are okay but not an entire album. Solo guitar is not my thing I have develop and wrote a few tunes as solo guitar but that's it and is not a "luck of confidence" but a musical preferences.

    I am amazed that you guys are here replay to my post but don't you should be touring right now some were in the world? Or the backing tracks guys stole all your gigs?

    Sandro
    Last edited by Sandro; 10-30-2014 at 09:14 PM.

  35. #34

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    In life I learn that, one way to separate the professional from the wanna be is, the professional, even when they criticize you, always give you words of wisdom and encouragement, they are not afraid of you, wile the wanna be put you down to lift them self up.

    Sandro

  36. #35

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    One can learn so darn much about the music industry, live entertainment, and the concerns of real musicians on this forum! Other than an occasional jam with friends, I have never performed but I feel as though I have a pretty good idea of what to expect, and some of the pitfalls.

    When I had plenty of time, I had planned to play for free just to get experience. Little did I know that there are serious unintended consequences from what seems like such a simple act - playing live just for the love of it and to share one's music. Yet I could be costing some fellow musician some income for survival.

    I had also planned to play with backing tracks like I have seen others do at senior citizen concerts and other small functions. Little did I know that I could be costing someone some income there too - as well as cheapening the art of Jazz - at least in the eyes of many.

    The metaphor about the spider web and life is true, we are all connected and moves I make here shake the web and can are felt by others, sometimes in a bad way.

    So now my choice is to either to all the way and get to where I can play good music or stay in the bedroom or friends music room.

    Its kind of sad, but of course, life ain't fair.

  37. #36

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    Alsoran - we had a standing gig Tuesday night for something like 9 years at this club. Place was packed everytime we played. We packed them in on Tuesday as much as the clubs Friday and Saturday nights. Five piece band made $75 a man. I did a three month teaching gig in. Vienna so we temporarily passed the gig. But there was a band who negotiated to take our place for $50. That's $50, not a piece. Now they thought it was a good way to climb into a easy ready made night, except they sucked. Club owner couldn't turn away from only paying $50 even if the band was bad. The unintended consequence was that it hurt every single band who tried to book in that club. I refused to ever play there again and the club, a once thriving 7 night a week jazz club died a dismal death. Today people still talk about when that club was great. Now it's a Vietnamese Resturant that has no music.

    There are always consequences.

  38. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
    Alsoran - we had a standing gig Tuesday night for something like 9 years at this club. Place was packed everytime we played. We packed them in on Tuesday as much as the clubs Friday and Saturday nights. Five piece band made $75 a man. I did a three month teaching gig in. Vienna so we temporarily passed the gig. But there was a band who negotiated to take our place for $50. That's $50, not a piece. Now they thought it was a good way to climb into a easy ready made night, except they sucked. Club owner couldn't turn away from only paying $50 even if the band was bad. The unintended consequence was that it hurt every single band who tried to book in that club. I refused to ever play there again and the club, a once thriving 7 night a week jazz club died a dismal death. Today people still talk about when that club was great. Now it's a Vietnamese Resturant that has no music.

    There are always consequences.
    Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.


    also Yes.

    This is huge huge huge.

    In the midst of all the jokes about backing trackers stealing my solo gigs (nope not yet) I would like to say that THIS is what I was talking about. Not one guitarist stealing a gig from another guitarist but rather one group putting a sloppy product together for pennies to serve as a substitute for a quality product that should cost $150 or more. It hurts the whole market. You've got a gig and the opportunity to make it known that a great band beats a stereo any day so step up and do it.

    Also another reply to Alsoran - there's absolutely nothing wrong with playing with your friends until you have the requisite skill to book a gig. That's the way it always is. You play backyard baseball and then sign up for little league and then play high school ... maybe you go to college and the pros ... maybe you play intermural and semi pro ... maybe it becomes a hobby... maybe you take up golf. You don't start by walking up and trying to hit an 88mph slider. It's part of development ... and once you're getting gigs you'll probably find that informal sessions with your friends are still the most free and fun places to play that you have.
    Last edited by inwalkedbud; 10-30-2014 at 11:22 PM.

  39. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by docbop View Post
    BIAB is fine because the audience doesn't know the difference or care. When solo you're what they see and focus on and backing tracks are just filling in some bass and a beat for them.
    Lol. Of course the audience doesn't care. Club owners care even less. Who buys BIAB for their kids?
    Parents. They want to see a payoff from their investment. A guy just bought a looper from me. He came up from Chicago with his father. Take a wild guess who paid for the looper? He wasn't a kid either. Must have been 19-20 years old.

  40. #39

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    I could have had my gig back. Maybe for the same amount. We certainly wouldn't have played for less. But I was so offended that I didn't try. But hearing the experiences of the other musicians, I walked away. Then again you don't want to get the reputation of one of those musicians who cut the throats of everyone else.

  41. #40

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    To answer the OP, I don't know where to get quality 3rd party backing tracks because I make all of mine myself.

  42. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by dortmundjazzguitar View Post
    dortmundjazzguitar, this video show a "business man" pis-toff with his "employees" because according to the boss they are not delivering what they are pay to deliver. This video is out of contest.

    Sandro

  43. #42

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    I have just one response to those who feel that playing to backing tracks cannot be original, other than being an "original sin". And this is one of the finest guitarists I have ever heard. Happens to be a contributor to the forum, too.

    If you would be bored by this fellow because he doesn't have a real band behind him, then you have tin ears. Of course, Paul is so good, he should have a top class jazz quintet backing him. Just my opinion...



    Jay
    Last edited by targuit; 10-31-2014 at 11:43 AM.

  44. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by targuit View Post
    I have just one response to those who feel that playing to backing tracks cannot be original, other than being an "original sin". And this is one of the finest guitarists I have ever heard. Happens to be a contributor to the forum, too.

    If you would be bored by this fellow because he doesn't have a real band behind him, then you have tin ears. Of course, Tony is so good, he should have a top class jazz quintet backing him. Just my opinion...



    Jay
    Very nice, if you have it it shows not matter how with whom or with what you play.

    Sandro

  45. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by ingeneri View Post
    You asked if there were any better backing tracks than BIAB for doing a solo gig. A number of us, admittedly using strong language, said no because, in our opinion, the very concept is faulty.

    Here's the technical reason I think this doesn't work, even with recordings of top players on an Abersold CD. A Jazz rhythm section needs to be dynamic. The basslines are not just 32 bar loops ad infinitim but an improvised line that, at its best, outlines the chords in a melodic way that can rival any solo. The same thing with drums, where the groove needs to be given variety. And then, on top of all that, they are supposed to be reacting and playing off what you do as the soloist (or even how you're approaching the melody), which is why even the Abersolds won't work. Without all this, you get a sterile and boring business man's bounce.

    As for my remark about earning the stage. I think every stage needs to be earned by anyone on it every single time. Not everybody who is gigging is ready for every situation. You may belong on some stages with some groups and not others. I'm far from the most comfortable solo guitarist and much prefer to work in a duo setting, but if that's what the gig demands then I need to get myself up to the task or be honest and decline the gig until I am. Otherwise, I'm not ready for that specific gig. It doesn't reflect on me as a person or even all that much as a musician. Even good musicians have their strengths, weaknesses, and limitations.
    Regarding the technical reason you are stating the obvious, all of us, I think, prefer to play with a live band for the obvious reasons that you mentioned, this is just common sense, in fact my OP doesn't say "I prefer to play with backing tracks than a real band so were I can get good backing tracks?"

    In reference to your remark is very vague and again state the obvious, the only think that I can add is that, I do feel up to the task of booking a gig using backing tracks there where such a set up make sense.

    Sandro

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    I was teaching at a music school on Vienna with the phenomenal guitarist Shawn Lane. For his first performance at the school he brought a dat tape with a backing band and played his friggjng ass off. I'd actually never heard anything like this. It was instrumental rock n roll Pakinstani music. He did it so much better than McLaughlin and Shakti. He played bending all those micro tones and sounded like a real smooth sitar but with great electric guitar overdrive. Never heard anything before or since like it. In this situation there's no way Shawn could have brought a band to play this stuff or maybe even been able to rehearse the teacher band to play it. We just wanted to hear him anyway. The backing track worked fine.

  47. #46

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    I know Wolf Marshall does a lot of gigging with small jazz band setups, but he also has a few regular solo gigs that he does where he uses backing tracks. And I don't think he needs to feel ashamed to do so. You can just tell by the look on his face that he is loving what he is doing, and although I would prefer to see a full band, I would pumped if I showed up for brunch here, and found someone of his caliber play... regardless of whether he was playing solo arrangement or playing along with a few tracks. God bless him for doing what he does and for a loving it. It may not encourage all, and some may feel that he is selling-out by playing with the backing tracks (at least that's impressions I'm getting from some of the replies here), but I think Wolf has shown that he really does a good job at doing what is needed based on the gig and situation at hand. And that is how I see what I do as well. Some band, some backing, some looper and some solo. It CAN all be good.


  48. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by acoustictones View Post
    I know Wolf Marshall does a lot of gigging with small jazz band setups, but he also has a few regular solo gigs that he does where he uses backing tracks. And I don't think he needs to feel ashamed to do so. You can just tell by the look on his face that he is loving what he is doing, and although I would prefer to see a full band, I would pumped if I showed up for brunch here, and found someone of his caliber play... regardless of whether he was playing solo arrangement or playing along with a few tracks. God bless him for doing what he does and for a loving it. It may not encourage all, and some may feel that he is selling-out by playing with the backing tracks (at least that's impressions I'm getting from some of the replies here), but I think Wolf has shown that he really does a good job at doing what is needed based on the gig and situation at hand. And that is how I see what I do as well. Some band, some backing, some looper and some solo. It CAN all be good.

    Another great example thank you acoustictone.

    Sandro

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    This is a forumate from the gear page site playing along with his backing tracks, another one who should be ashamed of him self.

    Sandro

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    These players all sound lovely. The bands don't. Who wants to hear someone solo over 8 choruses of a backing track w zero group interaction and zero dynamic contrast or shading. Come on man. These videos prove my point for me. Listen to this ... Fast forward to 4:15 and listen to the band... Do you hear what I hear? Energy. Musicians loving playing w each other and being in the moment. This is intense club jazz but seeing two people smiling and lock in and interact and listen to each other is what makes a performance valuable. If I wanted to listen to a person solo over a recording give me one good reason why I wouldn't pay $10/mo and stream spotify?


  51. #50

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    Sandro these are nice



    Also, Wiz makes really nice tracks for the "practical standards group" thread. They are all there for free download, lots of great tunes very nicely put together by him.