Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Posts 101 to 150 of 174
  1. #101

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by EOE View Post
    cats that play like that can also play like this...



    but yea a lot like that i am just moving in a different direction now I still do neo-classical just doing more fusion and blues nowadays... you wish you had his success. skill. talent and have influenced as many guitar players as he has . At the age of fourteen he started playing jazz guitar, and within two years he had won the Chicago-based "All-State Jazz Solo Award". at age 5 he was playing piano and composing. when you compare him to spinal tap puts your judgment into question in my book
    Man that's exactly the cheese people hate tracks for. Should be an excerpt from a sting solo project or something...

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #102

    User Info Menu

    yea cheese..

  4. #103

    User Info Menu

    .I use to do the teaching gig now I just focus on 2 students they pay me by working in my band , carrying equipment tuning guitars etc. one is away in college right now. he will be back this summer. gav has been studying with me for over 2 years. I make him play bass , keyboards and percussions.. he is practicing guitar I will put him on some guitar parts at some point. after he can cover all my bass parts. This is a better way think I leave a legacy behind wich now days Is something I think about I guess because I am 55..................(RICHB I know your typ that is why you are on my ignore list so do not waste your time with flame posts.) rofl you call lon Bronson shredded cheddarr ....only one of the most respected conductor ,producer ,composer and musician In the industry..every one on that stage are top musicians in the industry .and you call it a cover band?? that is to funny. drbrb I am putting you on ignore also what you have to say is not worth reading
    Last edited by EOE; 02-13-2015 at 11:54 AM.

  5. #104

    User Info Menu

    A band playing covers can be called a cover band. Any associations you place on that is on you. I honestly don't know how you call that anything other than wanking. No musicality or taste. If this is really something you think is good I'm quite happy to be on your ignore list as you likely don't have much to offer.

  6. #105

    User Info Menu

    Since we're posting clips of MAB's more sensitive side...


  7. #106

    User Info Menu

    that was a long time ago bobby rock on drums and racer on bass crazy fast all of them...and jim breaking wine glasses all night long with his voice.. they were way over the top. they were nuts in those days and I think far from his sensitive days.. all they wanted to do is melt your face.

  8. #107

    User Info Menu

    Setting aside all this debate, I'm under strict orders from my wife to use backing tracks.

    Hey, I have to somehow "dilute the sexy". This is what happens when it's just me and an acoustic.

    Backing Tracks for live gigs-party01-jpg

    Backing Tracks for live gigs-party02-jpg



  9. #108

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by drbhrb View Post
    Even as a listener/consumer, I would never stick around a bar listening to someone playing to tracks. At that point why not just play in a wedding band to make money?
    Because there are no more wedding bands, just DJs?

  10. #109

    User Info Menu

    Virtually all the big rock acts use sequences and tracks to some extent, and, like it or not, creativity can be expressed through making your own tracks. Many of our favorite jazzers use loopers, as well, which is nothing but creating tracks on the fly. I ran an 8-piece band that was the house band at a major casino, and did corporate, wedding and club work as well. The economic crash of '08 finished that band. Opening Logic or Protools and making good-sounding, musical backing tracks puts all of one's knowledge of harmony, rhythm, voice-leading and dynamics to good use, and can result in the ability to continue to avoid working for a living, a lofty and noble goal. I like to use the tracks in a duo format, because the interaction of even two people creates a sum larger than the parts.

  11. #110

    User Info Menu

    besides in a wedding band I would have to put up with a vocalist .. I am willing to share the melodies and solos with a sax or keyboardist but not a vocalist.

  12. #111

    User Info Menu

    thee are a few who want to work for me just not into that right now. just not really into backing anyone up right now I have had a lifetime of that. if the pay is right I may go back at a much later time...but not now. I am not really interested in working with anybody but a drummer , keyboardist and a sax...every one else I will hire .. you know I never claimed to be a professional musician or a real musician. am just musician who has made my living playing music that is all.
    Last edited by EOE; 03-01-2015 at 09:30 PM.

  13. #112

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by tibbils View Post
    Because there are no more wedding bands, just DJs?
    There are still wedding bands but fewer of them. They seem to be big outfits. Instead of 5-piece combos they'll be 8-12. That's just my observation, I don't follow the scene closely.

  14. #113

    User Info Menu

    With the exception of other guitar players, I have found that most audience members couldn't give two shits about my soloing other than "it sounded good".

    A few months ago I was invited to join a steady gigging instrumental fusion project (sort of a house-band situation at a large club). So I decided to give it a shot and played a couple of gigs with them. While it sounded good and even felt good for a bit, I discovered that I just didn't have the appetite for hours of modal mutual wanking, no matter how melodic I tried to make it. When all was said and done, I found that I desperately wanted to play and hear some SONGS.

    You know when the audience responded? When I was given some space to play and sing on my own for a few recognizable songs while the band took a break. But they were into their fusion jam vibe and I re-discovered that I am not.

    That experience reenforced why I think of myself as a singer who plays guitar and not the other way around.

  15. #114

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by drbhrb View Post
    So where are you playing these play along gigs?
    On weekends for the past few years I have been playing jazz guitar at three different restaurants. I use a nylon string or an archtop, with or without a pick. At times I use loops or recorded tracks, depending on my mood. I arrange my own tracks using Band-in-a-Box, and play them on the gig using an old iPod. To keep things interesting, I just set the iPod to ‘Shuffle’ and let it play my tunes in random order. Everything’s memorized.

    On Fridays and Saturdays I have been playing solo guitar in nice restaurants. I don’t do weeknights, and I never play later than 10:00 p.m. On Sundays, from Memorial Day to Labor Day, I play brunch in a beautiful restaurant with an excellent and very fun female vocalist. She uses a harmonizer, and sometimes I use my looper. We work from lead sheets, so there is plenty of variety on this gig.

    Back in 2011-2012 I tried really, really hard to have a jazz trio, sometimes adding a male vocalist. In the end, I gave up. It was like babysitting, but the money wasn’t as good.

    I’m much happier playing solo. When my pick chops were starting to slide from playing with my fingers all the time, I started using my tracks and a pick again. My chops returned. The first weekend I was so pleased, my first set stretched to 75 minutes. I asked the manager how it sounded, and she said “You sound happy!” That’s all the approval I need on a gig.

  16. #115

    User Info Menu

    I am a lot happier with a band I like conducting. because my first and best love is bass and I just love kicking it with a good drummer I am working on a band...but I do enjoy playing with backing tracs I do not sing so I have to solo my ass off to keep it interesting and as one of my mentors said. this will make me a even better soloist. I am a little nerves this is my first time fronting a band and want to do it right. big change coming from the back only doing a few solos a night to stepping in the spot.
    Last edited by EOE; 03-06-2015 at 10:35 PM.

  17. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by EOE View Post
    yea cheese..
    There was a guy that used to show up at the old school blues jams with his Zoom effects gizmo and played this kind of over the top shredding stuff...LOL! Everybody else who gets up just plugs straight into the house amp which at the time was a 1968 silver face Fender Deluxe. One time at another venue I had to jam with him. I forget what amp he was using but I was using my old solid state Fender 65 watt amp which I just plugged straight into. The other guitar players in the house commented on my lack of "shredding" skills....lol!

  18. #117

    User Info Menu

    I had a steady solo gig for 13 years at a Connecticut restaurant until it closed last year.(I don't think Sinatra ever had a run that long) Over the course of this gig I developed a following of customers who would come regularly,and stay for the whole night. I think I play solo chord melody pretty well,but I KNOW I can't play that style fast.Never could,never will.This limits my solo performances to ballads,and medium tempo tunes.To avoid being a total sleeping pill,sometimes I would use a looper for a little up tempo stuff when I felt the crowd nodding off (rhythm changes,blues,and a couple of standards).It's me playing on only one track,and me playing over it live,so I don't feel I'm "cheating" anyone. By the way,Les Paul is held in high regard by many musicians.Does anyone here want to take him and his multi track live performances out front and center for a public whipping? (juuuust sayin')! No shame in my game!
    Last edited by redwun; 03-09-2015 at 01:14 PM.

  19. #118

    User Info Menu

    Is this just an issue of live music. Much of TV and Movie sound tracks do not use live musicians anymore, specially when it come to full orchestras.. Music is scored and played back through software sample libraries. Are these composers and producers somehow in the same category as folks using backing tracks for live gigs. I can hold my own on drums, bass, piano and keyboard and can make my own backing tracks. Just wondering what folks think of other musical areas where musicians are being put out of work by technology. Are we willing to boycott movies that do not use real orchestras. My observation is that a venue that is not willing to pay for trio will not change their mind if you boycott the venue.

  20. #119

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by rickshapiro View Post
    ..... Just wondering what folks think of other musical areas where musicians are being put out of work by technology. ...
    Rick, that's some awesome timing with your question. I'm in Rochester, NY, and I just came in the door from seeing/hearing a touring company doing the musical Annie. Full house, 2500 seats. It was fabulous. There were 10 orchestral instruments and three keyboard synths. The sound of the real instruments made the experience for me. Sure wish there were more than 10, though. I think they are doing eight shows over six days.

    On other fronts, as of this past weekend the last restaurant/bar featuring a baby grand piano and jazz every night, mostly trios, has suddenly closed, due to non-payment of taxes. No technology other than amplifiers.

    Musicians and live music are expensive. Maybe compromise is the best route. I'm not giving up on my backing tracks, but I'm going to make it a point to keep playing tunes without them as well.

    Best regards,
    Norman
    Last edited by tibbils; 03-10-2015 at 11:46 PM.

  21. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by tibbils View Post
    Rick, that's some awesome timing with your question. I'm in Rochester, NY, and I just came in the door from seeing/hearing a touring company doing the musical Annie. Full house, 2500 seats. It was fabulous. There were 10 orchestral instruments and three keyboard synths. The sound of the real instruments made the experience for me. Sure wish there were more than 10, though. I think they are doing eight shows over six days.

    On other fronts, as of this past weekend the last restaurant/bar featuring a baby grand piano and jazz every night, mostly trios, has suddenly closed, due to non-payment of taxes. No technology other than amplifiers.

    Musicians and live music are expensive. Maybe compromise is the best route. I'm not giving up on my backing tracks, but I'm going to make it a point to keep playing tunes without them as well.

    Best regards,
    Norman
    Wow! That is the identical situation with one of the few club/restaurant in my city that was totally dedicated to jazz. They also had a baby grand piano and for years many top jazz players in the country would perform there. Unfortunately the club was also closed down for non-payment of federal taxes. It certainly didn't close for lack of patronage.

  22. #121

    User Info Menu

    backing tracks is a necessity in some situations due to financial considerations. Larry Carlton and Frank Gambale and other big name players have been doing this for several years now.

    It's obviously not an ideal situation but a musician has to do what they have to do to put food on the table.

    My problem isn't with backing tracks per se but with folks thinking that BIAB is high enough quality to use as your backing track!

  23. #122

    User Info Menu

    the songs are totally fundamental for me

    i spend my whole time trying to learn how to improvise (for the last twenty five years) - so i'm a fully signed up jazz soloist

    but - i can't even practice to 2/5/1 tracks - never mind vamping in gigs!!

    if i don't feel like i'm sharing really top notch tunes with people i feel like i'm just indulging myself (and don't deserve to!).

    its all about the tunes for me

    without a song
    surrey with the fringe on top
    embraceable you

    i'm very very happy to say - i could go on and on and on



    Quote Originally Posted by EightString View Post
    With the exception of other guitar players, I have found that most audience members couldn't give two shits about my soloing other than "it sounded good".

    A few months ago I was invited to join a steady gigging instrumental fusion project (sort of a house-band situation at a large club). So I decided to give it a shot and played a couple of gigs with them. While it sounded good and even felt good for a bit, I discovered that I just didn't have the appetite for hours of modal mutual wanking, no matter how melodic I tried to make it. When all was said and done, I found that I desperately wanted to play and hear some SONGS.

    You know when the audience responded? When I was given some space to play and sing on my own for a few recognizable songs while the band took a break. But they were into their fusion jam vibe and I re-discovered that I am not.

    That experience reenforced why I think of myself as a singer who plays guitar and not the other way around.

  24. #123

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker View Post
    backing tracks is a necessity in some situations due to financial considerations. Larry Carlton and Frank Gambale and other big name players have been doing this for several years now.

    It's obviously not an ideal situation but a musician has to do what they have to do to put food on the table.

    My problem isn't with backing tracks per se but with folks thinking that BIAB is high enough quality to use as your backing track!
    This is what I've been struggling with. I was taking BIAB, saving as a midi file, dumping it into FL Studio and started replacing sounds, etc...
    Too much! BIAB is good enough with some minor changes. I didn't like the RealDrums at first but it's OK. I replace the general midi acousitc bass with a bass VST from Sonivox. That's good enough. I skip the piano comping so it's just drums and bass.
    I couldn't get a soundfont player to play nice with BIAB and I wanted to use a piano soundfont. The piano comping sucks anyway so I decided to skip it. Not sure if I would ever try to get a gig with backing tracks but I figured- get a workflow just in case.

  25. #124

    User Info Menu

    Steve - if you want to hear an example of a super jazz pianist who uses BIAB to create pretty nice arrangements to complement his fine jazz skills, check out Doug McKenzie on YTube. Not only does Doug, a retired Australian jazz college level teacher, improvise over great standards, but he provides transcripts of lead tracks and / or full piano improvisations, but he also annotates his playing with theoretical comments. I think his playing demonstrates the best one can expect from Real Tracks in a "live" performance situation. You won't be disappointed. I'll put up a link.





    Jay

  26. #125

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by targuit View Post
    Steve - if you want to hear an example of a super jazz pianist who uses BIAB to create pretty nice arrangements to complement his fine jazz skills, check out Doug McKenzie on YTube. Not only does Doug, a retired Australian jazz college level teacher, improvise over great standards, but he provides transcripts of lead tracks and / or full piano improvisations, but he also annotates his playing with theoretical comments. I think his playing demonstrates the best one can expect from Real Tracks in a "live" performance situation. You won't be disappointed. I'll put up a link.





    Jay
    That sounds fine. Less is more if you have to do this. He didn't really need the guitar comping but it didn't get in the way.

  27. #126
    destinytot Guest
    My thoughts...

    Try as I might, I'm unable to reconcile the value of food on the table with the value of music. They are, for me, oil and water.

    As the late Gil Scott-Heron put it, "Whitey's on the moon..." - put people first, I say.

    Notable exceptions notwithstanding, using backing tracks for live gigs mitigates against the intuitive creativity of jazz musicians.

    Live and let live; 'Aye, there's the rub'...

    To me, their use on live gigs is tasteless at best and parasitic at worst. 'Necrophilia' seems a fitting metaphor.

  28. #127

  29. #128
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuitarPlayer View Post
    Proper recognition for musical heroes:

  30. #129

    User Info Menu

    One area where backing tracks are viable is in clinics and instruction. I said way back, probably on page 1, or another thread, that I was teaching with Shawn Lane back in the day and he used backing tracks of his home band playing some Pakistani rock fusion. There's no way he would've been able to get a pick up band to play that stuff on the fly. And it was incredible.

    I think it's completely fine to do a clinic and demonstrate playing with backing tracks. Not all guitar playing, or even jazz guitar playing, is solo guitar.

  31. #130

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post

    I think it's completely fine to do a clinic and demonstrate playing with backing tracks. Not all guitar playing, or even jazz guitar playing, is solo guitar.
    I would completely agree. Heck, that famous Pat Metheny video, playing with a metronome! (and swinging his ass off)
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  32. #131

    User Info Menu

    I like the creative process of making my own backing tracks, which I use in
    situations such as senior facilities and hospitals, which often have either low
    or no budgets. Creating tracks also is good practice for building arranging chops,
    and a library of good-sounding tracks is another source of income; I sell mine to
    various local singers and hornplayers; having most of the music in MIDI enables one
    to customize the keys, and I generally play bass and rhythm guitar on the tracks
    for a more "live" feel, which means redoing those in new keys, but it's easy.

    I do prefer to have one other live musician on the backing track gigs, since the
    interplay is a key component of any music.

    I'd much rather be playing out with tracks than teaching some lazy 10-year-old the latest
    metal riffs. My tracks have allowed me to retire from teaching and give real pleasure to
    people who need it. And I play with live groups several times a week as well.

    Beats the hell out of working.

  33. #132

    User Info Menu

    I really enjoyed this thread, despite it clearly hijacking the OP. Interesting to read everyone's opinion on the matter.

    I've never felt as gross as I did after experimenting with backing tracks during a busking gig (which was also likely due to my own playing being shit at the time, to be fair).
    demonstrates that there is ALWAYS a way to creatively accommodate an element of the rhythm section in one's unaccompanied performances. The most interesting art often comes from limitations in the medium.

  34. #133

    User Info Menu

    I think you should make your own accompaniment tracks. That way, there's an honesty to the whole thing. With Protools and Reason, or one of the other DAWs, you should be able to loop in a decent-sounding drum track, then a rhythm guitar track, then bass, maybe play a simple organ or synth pad track, then at the gig, you can spontaneously play and sing along. But it's all truly YOU.

  35. #134

    User Info Menu

    okay, here's my two cents (probably worth much less than that) ...apologies in advance

    the sheer terror displayed by some of the elitists here are a solid indicator that this is not a bad idea, if not a potentially great idea.

    the nay sayers consistently want to paint this as a scheister who can't play rocking out to some cold sounding 90s muzak in the corner of a senior center... and, this could certainly be that. one could also take the opportunity to make their own library of cool tracks using live tracks (loop loft, i love you) or even interesting electronic sounds ...maybe that's very not-1960's, but, last time I checked, electronics are kind of a standard component of many modern musicians' toolbox.

    with Studio One or Ableton, I could open an arrangement and even dictate that a track loop several different solo sections easily...

    hell, if you're really going for it, book some studio time and good players and play through some arrangements, maybe get a couple different solo sections...bonus points if they chastise you for "stealing future work"

    it might take a lot of work to get that ship ready to sail, but that's the point...

    i've been doing solo loop gigs for a couple years. positive feedback, repeat bookings, decent pay, etc. ...my live sound has been on the jam/jazz/funk side and I mainly play microbreweries, some restaurants, clubs on 'acoustic night' when they want something different (b/c to the club staff you're just 'wednesday') ...but, I have thought that more straight-head jazz w cool BT's could go over well in the right context. I have been in the 'jazz shed' again for a while and would like to expand my rotation to some of the local wineries and other places that aren't quite as crunchy...

    on that note, to anyone who does backing track gigs: if someone has ever come up to you and said 'that's not real jazz' ...i owe you a beer. statistically unlikely, besides rude. honestly, nobody gives a shit about jazz but jazz musicians, let alone 'THE TRUE NATURE OF JAZZ' (lol). the vast majority of people choose their music with as much thought as it takes to decide between pizza hut or dominoes; making music for the approval of your guitar playing peers is a losing game. ...the guitar has become as much of a centerpiece for opinion as a musical tool. most folks who even 'play' are pretty much just into the gear. Sad, but true. In that context, do the opinions of some rigid elitists on a guitar forum even matter?

    Acting like this is some form of heresy is laughable and sad.

    A solo player doing Joe Pass tunes is supposed to define the pinnacle of jazz guitar (don't get me wrong, love chord-melody playing), but a player blowing solos over a track is folly? Nah. It's just aesthetic preference. Authority is a privilege and illusion desired by so many and attained by none...

    "I've managed a K-Mart my whole life and we never, NEVER put electronics next to housewares..." is about what I am hearing.

    If there is mutual enjoyment between you, listeners, and venue...you've done the job.

    hypothetical: let's say i live in buttcrack, indiana and can gig out at some local places...my choices are do the above described cool backing track thing, or, play with Mouthbreather Jr. on keys who wants to do some Kenny G and "I sometimes play outside the church, if the pastor says it's okay" on drums ...I am going with the laptop. I have been in similar situations. Laptop wins every time.

    ...OR, should I stay in the house so as to do my part to maintain the integrity of 'TRUE JAZZ'? hmm...

    Playing with other good players is amazing and there is no substitute for it...when you take a look at who is paying and who is playing though, you have to work with what you have. Also, if this sort of thing tickles your fancy and you can provide nice music for venues in your area...why not?? I don't think anyone's expecting Downbeat to review the gig. Just do your best, do 'you', and be a servant to the music. ...and, don't use Casio-keyboard quality backing tracks

    In the end, personally, I would feel that I had given up more of my soul after teaching and kissing the asses of rich parents and their kids all day for the foreseeable future than I would playing to some tracks for easy money at a swanky joint...

  36. #135

    User Info Menu

    IMO, crucial question is not: Is it really Jazz, if backing tracks are used?

    IMO, the real question is: Is it even a gig, if nobody gives a @#$% about music being played?
    Should going to do a gig equal going to work? Should Musician equal "Musical labour provider"?
    IMO, those are important questions.

    It is Jazz if listeners think it is and there's no further discussion, regardless of using backing tracks.


    With due respect to micro breweries, restaurants and wine bars ... and other places where people came for whatever reason except to hear YOU and see YOU playing YOUR music ...
    ... here's some 90's muzak over cold sounding backing tracks ... as used on a real gig, where and when people actually do come to see and hear YOU and YOUR music ... that is where backing tracks have their place ... same tracks used on CD release and elsewhere, because those tracks are the essential ingredient of the music people came to hear and could not care less if the beer is diluted, or whatever ...



    (sorry, I know I already posted, but I just love that gig)

    Oh, one more thing, if CASIO backing is the sound YOU are looking for and think it suits YOUR music fine, YOU should use it, regardless of what some elitists might suggest.
    ^ ^ ^
    <<< My BlogSpot Page >>>
    v v v

  37. #136

    User Info Menu

    Why let some highly-abstract aesthetic principle intrude on your professional prerogative? Intrusion notwithstanding, 'why', indeed?

    My objection to playing with backing tracks – ‘rigid elitist’ that I am – is not at all on grounds of aesthetics. (On the contrary, I feel energised at the mere idea being on the edge of discovery.)

    It's about valuing and honouring social and cultural traditions – something quite different to what is so colourfully depicted in the ‘Walmart’ reference in the above post.

    Because, to me, the end doesn’t justify the means; what elicits ‘terror’ in this ‘rigid elitist’ are the words “by any means necessary”.

    ...OR, should I stay in the house so as to do my part to maintain the integrity of 'TRUE JAZZ'? hmm..
    The view that this is a purely material and economic conquest also seems very superficial to me. The ‘poor’ musician can be ‘practical and prosaic’ without necessarily becoming the kind of person who doesn’t give a sh*t about values outside the economic or the material.

    I accept that people perceive situations differently (assuming they perceive situations at all).

    This ‘rigid elitist’ perceives a perfectly possible 'middle way'; 'backing tracks' needn't mean the decline, collapse and disappearance of 'TRUE JAZZ' - and using a looper on gigs needn't mean cultural degeneration. (On the other hand, 't might mean exactly that - in which case my two cents of unsolicited advice would be 'talk it over with the pastor at that church in Buttcrack, Arizona'.)

  38. #137

    User Info Menu

    What it is or isn't is completely up to the person putting their stuff in the car and going. It's a subjective question with many, many answers.

    Also, in my usage, a 'gig' equates to playing music at a bar or club for people who may or may not be coming to see you; a 'concert' is when folks come to a musical event to see your work specifically.

    (i have a gig with that funk band at the strip club. vs. i am giving a concert of Kanye West songs on the bagpipes at the Royal Theater, tonight...tickets available online...)

    That's the big catch here: none of these questions have single, correct answers. Beyond what it means to you, who cares?

    To set definitions of 'this belongs here and not here' is only creating a self-imposed limitation. If you don't dig it, that's totally cool...but, why define what things should or shouldn't be for other people? (which i am not sure is what you were doing anyhow)

    Being a musical laborer, for example...my answer is a solid "no way"...for someone else, it's just another day at the office. One of the defining moments of my early adult life was 'playing for a living' and wishing i was just back in the kitchen making the damn food.

    The sentiment about whether or not folks are there to see you...once again, this may matter to you, it may not. What about a church organist? They are highly skilled musicians who will only get a speck of appreciation from the folks who hear them play throughout their career (unless you're the lady with the cool show on EWTN). ...most will already know; proper church organists are BAD.ASS. musicians.

    With the gigs I mentioned previously, it was a win in my opinion because people in my area do come to hear my music and watch me play...they also aren't roped into sitting and watching it for 2 hours straight. I am not really trying to create an immersive experience. (a lot of these folks are very stoned, much like original jazz fans hehe) ...they want to come tune in for a few songs, go chat with some friends, try to hit on women, whatever. I am a groovy piece of a cool environment.

    I'm not selling tickets or putting on a show...but, I do get to go out, get paid, play my own tunes and tunes that I have chosen/arranged and it's all instrumental. ...for me, it's a win. For others, this is gonna mean a million things. for me...happy basscadet with tired hands and the constant mental battle quiet enough to take a day off, done.

    Personally, I haven't done a gig like this yet...whether I do remains to be seen. But, I think it's a genuine misstep to dismiss this outright.

  39. #138

    User Info Menu

    That's all very reasonable as it relates to your personal experience and conduct. I also really appreciate the idea of 'never for money or fun, alone'.

    I personally can appreciate honoring the tradition of jazz as well...I love playing with people for the conversational aspect of things above all; I listen for the same reason, too.

    My life in the past decade has really forced me to think outside the box in order to be able to cling to some form of musical functionality...I was apprehensive for years about gigging with a looper until a couple shows landed in my lap in 2014. I market it as 'live improvisation' too...so, I can't say from experience that I have gone out and done standards or anything...aside from a couple other people in my little suburban area (many of whom i play with regularly), that's as close as it gets to a "jazz" musician making music up on the fly within an hour drive.

    To me, and I may be off...but that's what the cats were doing in the day; it didn't seem like they were trying to embody an aesthetic, they were creating it as a byproduct of their artistic output. ...I digress (big time, heh)

    I don't think I'm doing something so cool...but I really try to 'just do it'. I was a guitar tech for Buzzcocks one summer though, maybe some of the punk attitude rubbed off for the better

    I have fun. Every night has ups and downs. There's always going to be that group of people who sit and watch every note and the majority come and go and enjoy their night.

    Anywho, appreciate the conversation in here (for the most part, hehe) ...and, it was a /k-mart/ reference, fyi jk cheers!

  40. #139

    User Info Menu

    Yeah I dunno. I have a friend who's really into Ableton. I think it's all good. If you play music that is good and you are passionate about it will be worthwhile whatever it is and however you make it. I'm just a grumpy jazz bastard.

    As far as: is it jazz? Just put it out there and let people argue about it. Of course most people don't care.

  41. #140

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    None of this kind of thing interests me as a player. It's kind of dead to me. But some people are into it. Cool.

    I get a bit annoyed when it becomes an expectation that you should be up to speed with all this technology... Loop pedals are enough of an annoyance to be getting on with. And to be honest I'd rather play without one. People go 'ooh do you have a loop pedal' and my heart sinks.

    I do in fact have a loop pedal. But I don't really like the comp for a chorus and then solo over yourself while the sax player nods off kind of thing. It feels... masturbatory....

    But it is possible to do interesting things with a loop, and I see it as a creative thing in itself. It's just not my vibe (although I like it for ambient effects in groups. In bands they are very difficult to use rhythmically for all sorts of interesting reasons.)

    But then you have this trio pedal thing. I just find it a bit ... Naff...

    It's also the thing where someone books two people and expects a full band sound. I get tired of that. But the technology marches on....

    as time moves on, society needs to learn how to appreciate an apple for an apple, an orange for an orange. ...at my loop pedal gigs, people ask if i sing, beatbox, play radio covers, etc.. /my/ heart sinks. it's a mandala of creation and destruction. ...this exists at every level of the music industry as well and across all styles. i guess that's just people: they want their cake and to eat it with ice cream and a cherry on top (oh, but do you have one of the 'fancy' bowls..?) people are never satisfied.


    BUT, I don't think anyone should be expected to use any type of gear/technology..I don't think it's out of place either (kind of a feeling I got a a few hundred pages back from some folks )

    ...the trio pedal, is that the one with a little drum machine that responds to how you play? ...i just learned what 'naff' means and i think you're spot on.

  42. #141

    User Info Menu

    I got a looper last year; I hardly ever use it - and when I do, I don't get the timing of the loop quite right.


    But I'd love to become practised in building up sophisticated loops - or looping a short section 'on the fly' - to be able to pull it off live.

    Because, 'jazz' or no, I do believe that experience could be fun for me, and perhaps also engaging for listeners.

  43. #142

    User Info Menu

    RE: loopers/tracks (since it's been a while since this thread has popped up)

    I think it's all about using a looper "artistically." Your hear Frisell or Fripp, or even Metheny's "orchestrion"...that ain't guitareoke.

    But I'll be honest, I see a guy comp some chords for himself to solo over and call jazz, I'm wondering why he couldn't just practice a bit more and do more with less.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  44. #143

    User Info Menu



    I will dare to share...forgive the shit note I hit right at the outset, it takes a few revolutions to cover it up. The rest of the confection was fairly doable. This is what I do at gigs, I do some tunes with just bass, some with both. Lots of different feels but this is a pretty typical improvisation for that I would do at a gig.

    Pardon my definite non-jazzitude (i'm learnin'!)

  45. #144

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by basscadet View Post


    I will dare to share...forgive the shit note I hit right at the outset, it takes a few revolutions to cover it up. The rest of the confection was fairly doable. This is what I do at gigs, I do some tunes with just bass, some with both. Lots of different feels but this is a pretty typical improvisation for that I would do at a gig.

    Pardon my definite non-jazzitude (i'm learnin'!)
    Loved that! Got to go (the 'w*** word' beckons), but I'd love to know how you achieve the bass and the percussion sounds.(Octave pedal and wah-wah?)

  46. #145

    User Info Menu

    I use a line 6 M13 for the effects. I didn't loop with anything but delay and the looper itself for the first few years. I feel bad clogging up this thread with a bunch of looping stuff ...but, in a nutshell, I use an Octaver with no dry signal for the bass lines and the percussion is just my hand. I also only did this with bass for a number of years and started working on guitar again about a year and a half ago. ...but, mostly a bit of delay, the rotary effect, reverb and that's it. crappy strings on a mexican strat it's crucial to make an interesting groove that is nice to play over and also has room to build. takes some work, I have good days and bad days...i had twins so there was a good 4 solid years of 'loop if they sleep' and not much gigging.

    i strongly agree though, the loop game needs to be strong or it can go south quickly.

  47. #146

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by basscadet View Post
    I use a line 6 M13 for the effects. I didn't loop with anything but delay and the looper itself for the first few years. I feel bad clogging up this thread with a bunch of looping stuff ...but, in a nutshell, I use an Octaver with no dry signal for the bass lines and the percussion is just my hand. I also only did this with bass for a number of years and started working on guitar again about a year and a half ago. ...but, mostly a bit of delay, the rotary effect, reverb and that's it. crappy strings on a mexican strat it's crucial to make an interesting groove that is nice to play over and also has room to build. takes some work, I have good days and bad days...i had twins so there was a good 4 solid years of 'loop if they sleep' and not much gigging.

    i strongly agree though, the loop game needs to be strong or it can go south quickly.
    You have taught me one of the tricks of the trade - using that octave pedal to make basslines. Nice tip. Pretty nice atmospheric playing as well. I somehow pictured something a little more mellow, but I was thinking more of a restaurant gig, I guess.

    Thanks.

  48. #147

    User Info Menu

    Looping is a culture at this point. You generally have about 1 minute to get all you ideas together. Ed Sheeran comes from that. Kimbra and Kawehi Wight are doing some amazing things with looping.
    Looping is looping. Doesn't matter if you're playing guitar or beat-boxing.

    I have a lot of drum tracks I did the right way. They're loops. Seems like people in R&B haven't learned anything in the last 30 years. The show revolves around the drummer.
    My drummer lives in my laptop and cell phone.

    My drummer is probably better than your drummer.

    In regards to technology- if you don't so it someone else will. We may never get out of the downsizing Reagan era in US music.

  49. #148

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo View Post
    Let's face it, live musicians are a disposable breed, it's cheaper to fire up the ol' jukebox, and that's what the musician's union has been trying to warn about since the dawn of recording. Beware, you will be replaced by technology.
    I had a weekly dinner gig at a local restaurant. I played the gig on my Chapman Stick.

    I had a good 3 hours of material - some jazz standards, original tunes, and a bit of improvisation. One night, a drunk patron stumbles up and shouts that he wants to hear me play and sing Sinatra. I didn't have any prepared, and told him so. He heads over to the jukebox (which had been unplugged for my dinner gig), plugs it back in and starts playing Sinatra.

    He must have spent a lot of money at that bar, because I lost the gig that week to a DJ.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  50. #149

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by AlsoRan View Post
    You have taught me one of the tricks of the trade - using that octave pedal to make basslines. Nice tip. Pretty nice atmospheric playing as well. I somehow pictured something a little more mellow, but I was thinking more of a restaurant gig, I guess.

    Thanks.
    Bass in this one is Tele through octaver
    (Wendy, Paul Desmond, my variation from 2014, Practical Standards thread...)

    VladanMovies & CCC - Car Camera Clips: VladanMovies @ Smederevo Fortress/ Cover of Wendy by Paul Desmond


    Sent from VladanMovies @ YouTube
    ^ ^ ^
    <<< My BlogSpot Page >>>
    v v v

  51. #150

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan View Post
    Bass in this one is Tele through octaver
    (Wendy, Paul Desmond, my variation from 2014, Practical Standards thread...)

    VladanMovies & CCC - Car Camera Clips: VladanMovies @ Smederevo Fortress/ Cover of Wendy by Paul Desmond


    Sent from VladanMovies @ YouTube
    There you go! Another enterprising soul using their head.

    That is what I like about this forum. Everybody brings their own ideas, many of which can be adopted by someone else.

    I actually just ran up the credit card a little and bought one of those EZMix 2 programs and a guitar interface. Now I can make some recordings like you guys. Only I really like having drums so I bought the EZdrummer 2.

    Damn. That was a lot of money....

    I hope the wife doesn't find out.....!