Backing Tracks for live gigs

**drbhrb** · 02-12-2015, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by EOE

cats that play like that can also play like this...

but yea a lot like that i am just moving in a different direction now I still do neo-classical just doing more fusion and blues nowadays... you wish you had his success. skill. talent and have influenced as many guitar players as he has . At the age of fourteen he started playing jazz guitar, and within two years he had won the Chicago-based "All-State Jazz Solo Award". at age 5 he was playing piano and composing. when you compare him to spinal tap puts your judgment into question in my book

Man that's exactly the cheese people hate tracks for. Should be an excerpt from a sting solo project or something...

**EOE** · 02-13-2015, 01:50 AM

yea cheese..

**EOE** · 02-13-2015, 11:02 AM

.I use to do the teaching gig now I just focus on 2 students they pay me by working in my band , carrying equipment tuning guitars etc. one is away in college right now. he will be back this summer. gav has been studying with me for over 2 years. I make him play bass , keyboards and percussions.. he is practicing guitar I will put him on some guitar parts at some point. after he can cover all my bass parts. This is a better way think I leave a legacy behind wich now days Is something I think about I guess because I am 55..................(RICHB I know your typ that is why you are on my ignore list so do not waste your time with flame posts.) rofl you call lon Bronson shredded cheddarr ....only one of the most respected conductor ,producer ,composer and musician In the industry..every one on that stage are top musicians in the industry .and you call it a cover band?? that is to funny. drbrb I am putting you on ignore also what you have to say is not worth reading

**drbhrb** · 02-13-2015, 12:01 PM

A band playing covers can be called a cover band. Any associations you place on that is on you. I honestly don't know how you call that anything other than wanking. No musicality or taste. If this is really something you think is good I'm quite happy to be on your ignore list as you likely don't have much to offer.

**3625** · 02-13-2015, 07:57 PM

Since we're posting clips of MAB's more sensitive side...

**EOE** · 02-13-2015, 10:34 PM

that was a long time ago bobby rock on drums and racer on bass crazy fast all of them...and jim breaking wine glasses all night long with his voice.. they were way over the top. they were nuts in those days and I think far from his sensitive days.. all they wanted to do is melt your face.

**EightString** · 02-15-2015, 12:27 AM

Setting aside all this debate, I'm under strict orders from my wife to use backing tracks.

Hey, I have to somehow "dilute the sexy". This is what happens when it's just me and an acoustic.

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**tibbils** · 03-01-2015, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by drbhrb

Even as a listener/consumer, I would never stick around a bar listening to someone playing to tracks. At that point why not just play in a wedding band to make money?

Because there are no more wedding bands, just DJs?

**ronjazz** · 03-01-2015, 06:46 PM

Virtually all the big rock acts use sequences and tracks to some extent, and, like it or not, creativity can be expressed through making your own tracks. Many of our favorite jazzers use loopers, as well, which is nothing but creating tracks on the fly. I ran an 8-piece band that was the house band at a major casino, and did corporate, wedding and club work as well. The economic crash of '08 finished that band. Opening Logic or Protools and making good-sounding, musical backing tracks puts all of one's knowledge of harmony, rhythm, voice-leading and dynamics to good use, and can result in the ability to continue to avoid working for a living, a lofty and noble goal. I like to use the tracks in a duo format, because the interaction of even two people creates a sum larger than the parts.

**EOE** · 03-01-2015, 06:48 PM

besides in a wedding band I would have to put up with a vocalist .. I am willing to share the melodies and solos with a sax or keyboardist but not a vocalist.

**EOE** · 03-01-2015, 09:20 PM

thee are a few who want to work for me just not into that right now. just not really into backing anyone up right now I have had a lifetime of that. if the pay is right I may go back at a much later time...but not now. I am not really interested in working with anybody but a drummer , keyboardist and a sax...every one else I will hire .. you know I never claimed to be a professional musician or a real musician. am just musician who has made my living playing music that is all.

**Stevebol** · 03-02-2015, 05:34 AM

Originally Posted by tibbils

Because there are no more wedding bands, just DJs?

There are still wedding bands but fewer of them. They seem to be big outfits. Instead of 5-piece combos they'll be 8-12. That's just my observation, I don't follow the scene closely.

**EightString** · 03-02-2015, 07:02 PM

With the exception of other guitar players, I have found that most audience members couldn't give two shits about my soloing other than "it sounded good".

A few months ago I was invited to join a steady gigging instrumental fusion project (sort of a house-band situation at a large club). So I decided to give it a shot and played a couple of gigs with them. While it sounded good and even felt good for a bit, I discovered that I just didn't have the appetite for hours of modal mutual wanking, no matter how melodic I tried to make it. When all was said and done, I found that I desperately wanted to play and hear some SONGS.

You know when the audience responded? When I was given some space to play and sing on my own for a few recognizable songs while the band took a break. But they were into their fusion jam vibe and I re-discovered that I am not.

That experience reenforced why I think of myself as a singer who plays guitar and not the other way around.

**tibbils** · 03-06-2015, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by drbhrb

So where are you playing these play along gigs?

On weekends for the past few years I have been playing jazz guitar at three different restaurants. I use a nylon string or an archtop, with or without a pick. At times I use loops or recorded tracks, depending on my mood. I arrange my own tracks using Band-in-a-Box, and play them on the gig using an old iPod. To keep things interesting, I just set the iPod to ‘Shuffle’ and let it play my tunes in random order. Everything’s memorized.

On Fridays and Saturdays I have been playing solo guitar in nice restaurants. I don’t do weeknights, and I never play later than 10:00 p.m. On Sundays, from Memorial Day to Labor Day, I play brunch in a beautiful restaurant with an excellent and very fun female vocalist. She uses a harmonizer, and sometimes I use my looper. We work from lead sheets, so there is plenty of variety on this gig.

Back in 2011-2012 I tried really, really hard to have a jazz trio, sometimes adding a male vocalist. In the end, I gave up. It was like babysitting, but the money wasn’t as good.

I’m much happier playing solo. When my pick chops were starting to slide from playing with my fingers all the time, I started using my tracks and a pick again. My chops returned. The first weekend I was so pleased, my first set stretched to 75 minutes. I asked the manager how it sounded, and she said “You sound happy!” That’s all the approval I need on a gig.

**EOE** · 03-06-2015, 10:25 PM

I am a lot happier with a band I like conducting. because my first and best love is bass and I just love kicking it with a good drummer I am working on a band...but I do enjoy playing with backing tracs I do not sing so I have to solo my ass off to keep it interesting and as one of my mentors said. this will make me a even better soloist. I am a little nerves this is my first time fronting a band and want to do it right. big change coming from the back only doing a few solos a night to stepping in the spot.

**OldGuitarPlayer** · 03-08-2015, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by EOE

yea cheese..

There was a guy that used to show up at the old school blues jams with his Zoom effects gizmo and played this kind of over the top shredding stuff...LOL! Everybody else who gets up just plugs straight into the house amp which at the time was a 1968 silver face Fender Deluxe. One time at another venue I had to jam with him. I forget what amp he was using but I was using my old solid state Fender 65 watt amp which I just plugged straight into. The other guitar players in the house commented on my lack of "shredding" skills....lol!

**redwun** · 03-09-2015, 08:59 AM

I had a steady solo gig for 13 years at a Connecticut restaurant until it closed last year.(I don't think Sinatra ever had a run that long)

Over the course of this gig I developed a following of customers who would come regularly,and stay for the whole night. I think I play solo chord melody pretty well,but I KNOW I can't play that style fast.Never could,never will.This limits my solo performances to ballads,and medium tempo tunes.To avoid being a total sleeping pill,sometimes I would use a looper for a little up tempo stuff when I felt the crowd nodding off (rhythm changes,blues,and a couple of standards).It's me playing on only one track,and me playing over it live,so I don't feel I'm "cheating" anyone. By the way,Les Paul is held in high regard by many musicians.Does anyone here want to take him and his multi track live performances out front and center for a public whipping? (juuuust sayin')! No shame in my game!

**rickshapiro** · 03-10-2015, 06:56 PM

Is this just an issue of live music. Much of TV and Movie sound tracks do not use live musicians anymore, specially when it come to full orchestras.. Music is scored and played back through software sample libraries. Are these composers and producers somehow in the same category as folks using backing tracks for live gigs. I can hold my own on drums, bass, piano and keyboard and can make my own backing tracks. Just wondering what folks think of other musical areas where musicians are being put out of work by technology. Are we willing to boycott movies that do not use real orchestras. My observation is that a venue that is not willing to pay for trio will not change their mind if you boycott the venue.

**tibbils** · 03-10-2015, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by rickshapiro

..... Just wondering what folks think of other musical areas where musicians are being put out of work by technology. ...

Rick, that's some awesome timing with your question. I'm in Rochester, NY, and I just came in the door from seeing/hearing a touring company doing the musical Annie. Full house, 2500 seats. It was fabulous. There were 10 orchestral instruments and three keyboard synths. The sound of the real instruments made the experience for me. Sure wish there were more than 10, though. I think they are doing eight shows over six days.

On other fronts, as of this past weekend the last restaurant/bar featuring a baby grand piano and jazz every night, mostly trios, has suddenly closed, due to non-payment of taxes. No technology other than amplifiers.

Musicians and live music are expensive. Maybe compromise is the best route. I'm not giving up on my backing tracks, but I'm going to make it a point to keep playing tunes without them as well.

Best regards,
Norman

**OldGuitarPlayer** · 03-12-2015, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by tibbils

Rick, that's some awesome timing with your question. I'm in Rochester, NY, and I just came in the door from seeing/hearing a touring company doing the musical Annie. Full house, 2500 seats. It was fabulous. There were 10 orchestral instruments and three keyboard synths. The sound of the real instruments made the experience for me. Sure wish there were more than 10, though. I think they are doing eight shows over six days.

On other fronts, as of this past weekend the last restaurant/bar featuring a baby grand piano and jazz every night, mostly trios, has suddenly closed, due to non-payment of taxes. No technology other than amplifiers.

Musicians and live music are expensive. Maybe compromise is the best route. I'm not giving up on my backing tracks, but I'm going to make it a point to keep playing tunes without them as well.

Best regards,
Norman

Wow! That is the identical situation with one of the few club/restaurant in my city that was totally dedicated to jazz. They also had a baby grand piano and for years many top jazz players in the country would perform there. Unfortunately the club was also closed down for non-payment of federal taxes. It certainly didn't close for lack of patronage.

**jzucker** · 03-12-2015, 12:26 PM

backing tracks is a necessity in some situations due to financial considerations. Larry Carlton and Frank Gambale and other big name players have been doing this for several years now.

It's obviously not an ideal situation but a musician has to do what they have to do to put food on the table.

My problem isn't with backing tracks per se but with folks thinking that BIAB is high enough quality to use as your backing track!

**Groyniad** · 03-12-2015, 12:42 PM

the songs are totally fundamental for me

i spend my whole time trying to learn how to improvise (for the last twenty five years) - so i'm a fully signed up jazz soloist

but - i can't even practice to 2/5/1 tracks - never mind vamping in gigs!!

if i don't feel like i'm sharing really top notch tunes with people i feel like i'm just indulging myself (and don't deserve to!).

its all about the tunes for me

without a song
surrey with the fringe on top
embraceable you

i'm very very happy to say - i could go on and on and on

Originally Posted by EightString

With the exception of other guitar players, I have found that most audience members couldn't give two shits about my soloing other than "it sounded good".

A few months ago I was invited to join a steady gigging instrumental fusion project (sort of a house-band situation at a large club). So I decided to give it a shot and played a couple of gigs with them. While it sounded good and even felt good for a bit, I discovered that I just didn't have the appetite for hours of modal mutual wanking, no matter how melodic I tried to make it. When all was said and done, I found that I desperately wanted to play and hear some SONGS.

You know when the audience responded? When I was given some space to play and sing on my own for a few recognizable songs while the band took a break. But they were into their fusion jam vibe and I re-discovered that I am not.

That experience reenforced why I think of myself as a singer who plays guitar and not the other way around.

**Stevebol** · 03-12-2015, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

backing tracks is a necessity in some situations due to financial considerations. Larry Carlton and Frank Gambale and other big name players have been doing this for several years now.

It's obviously not an ideal situation but a musician has to do what they have to do to put food on the table.

My problem isn't with backing tracks per se but with folks thinking that BIAB is high enough quality to use as your backing track!

This is what I've been struggling with. I was taking BIAB, saving as a midi file, dumping it into FL Studio and started replacing sounds, etc...
Too much! BIAB is good enough with some minor changes. I didn't like the RealDrums at first but it's OK. I replace the general midi acousitc bass with a bass VST from Sonivox. That's good enough. I skip the piano comping so it's just drums and bass.
I couldn't get a soundfont player to play nice with BIAB and I wanted to use a piano soundfont. The piano comping sucks anyway so I decided to skip it. Not sure if I would ever try to get a gig with backing tracks but I figured- get a workflow just in case.

**targuit** · 03-12-2015, 08:33 PM

Steve - if you want to hear an example of a super jazz pianist who uses BIAB to create pretty nice arrangements to complement his fine jazz skills, check out Doug McKenzie on YTube. Not only does Doug, a retired Australian jazz college level teacher, improvise over great standards, but he provides transcripts of lead tracks and / or full piano improvisations, but he also annotates his playing with theoretical comments. I think his playing demonstrates the best one can expect from Real Tracks in a "live" performance situation. You won't be disappointed. I'll put up a link.

Jay

**Stevebol** · 03-12-2015, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by targuit

Steve - if you want to hear an example of a super jazz pianist who uses BIAB to create pretty nice arrangements to complement his fine jazz skills, check out Doug McKenzie on YTube. Not only does Doug, a retired Australian jazz college level teacher, improvise over great standards, but he provides transcripts of lead tracks and / or full piano improvisations, but he also annotates his playing with theoretical comments. I think his playing demonstrates the best one can expect from Real Tracks in a "live" performance situation. You won't be disappointed. I'll put up a link.

Jay

That sounds fine. Less is more if you have to do this. He didn't really need the guitar comping but it didn't get in the way.