Moving to New York as a Jazz Musician

[AllanAllen]

Interestingly enough the OP has never returned to the conversation.

S

The usual January influx of resolutionists who get a look around the asylum and run away.

[djg]

I find it amazing that people think it is OK to interfere with Federal law enforcement officers who are enforcing Federal law.

we had these kind of law enforcement officers in germany in the 30s and 40s. they took mainly jews.

[Mick-7]

we had these kind of law enforcement officers in germany in the 30s and 40s. they took mainly jews.

In the U.S. now, Hispanics are targeted, the U.S. Supreme Court sanctioned this racial profiling:

"In a 6-3 vote in the case known as Vasquez Perdomo v. Noem, the Supreme Court granted an emergency request from the Trump administration and temporarily halted a LA judge’s order that barred “roving patrols” from snatching people off California streets and questioning them based on how they look, what language they speak, what work they do, or even where they happen to be. Both a Los Angeles federal court and the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals had ruled that these actions amounted to illegal racial profiling.

On Sept. 8, 2025, the Supreme Court issued a brief, unsigned order that overturns those decisions. This gives immigration agents a “green light” to once again stop anyone they guess to be here illegally—even if a central reason for the stop was race. This endorses ICE and Border Patrol targeting any Latinos they observe in Los Angeles speaking Spanish or working in low-income jobs, and then demanding their papers.

Justice Sotomayor, one of the three Justices who dissented, raised a clear alarm in her dissent. She warned that this decision risks turning Latinos into second class citizens. In her words: “We should not have to live in a country where the Government can seize anyone who looks Latino, speaks Spanish, and appears to work a low wage job. Rather than stand idly by while our constitutional freedoms are lost, I dissent.”

[Strat-itis]

As if it's unethical to enforce preventing illegal immigration.

[Cunamara]

Actually, I lived in NYC under her best ever Mayor, to wit, John V. Lindsay. I also lived in NYC under Mayor Beame and Mayor Koch. Lucky me, that was a great time to experience NYC.

People from there have told me that Koch's era was the beginning of the end of "old weird New York," but never having been there then or now I don't have a comparison. A doc from New York I worked with for a couple of decades said "it's like the state fair for adults."

[Bob_Ross]

I'm lucky I lived in NYC the best times, under mayors Guilliani and especially Michael Bloomberg. Bloomberg was absolutely the best mayor for the city ever.

Actually, I lived in NYC under her best ever Mayor, to wit, John V. Lindsay. I also lived in NYC under Mayor Beame and Mayor Koch. Lucky me, that was a great time to experience NYC.

I lived in NYC from 1987-1993, and then again from 2000-2023

...and in all that time I never once thought "this guy is the best mayor!"

Come to think of it, I couldn't tell you who was the mayor any of those years I lived there without consulting a Wikipedia article.

==========

...but I did earn a living playing music there (just trying to get this thread back on track)

[Mick-7]

I lived in NYC from 1987-1993, and then again from 2000-2023 ... and in all that time I never once thought "this guy is the best mayor!"

Yeah, really, "I haven't had a gig all year, must be the mayor's fault!"

[Hep To The Jive]

I lived in NYC from 1987-1993, and then again from 2000-2023

...and in all that time I never once thought "this guy is the best mayor!"

Come to think of it, I couldn't tell you who was the mayor any of those years I lived there without consulting a Wikipedia article.

==========

...but I did earn a living playing music there (just trying to get this thread back on track)

Good for you, so did I. So you must concerned yourself with questions sometimes is it safe to commute on subway late night carrying your instrument, walk in certain neighborhoods late night? If you tell me you didn't I'd say you're full of it. It's living in a big city 101.

I visited NYC first time around 1989, just for a week, to reunite with my family, I was a teenager. I was told it's best to avoid going on a subway late night, it's given it wasn't safe. Not quite like 70's I was told, but not safe nevertheless

The second time I immigrated in 1998, at that time everyone around me was talking how Guilliani cleaned up the city and how it got so much better. Yes, I was going around pretty much any hour, subway, buses, walking, never had a problem, and it later in 2000's under Bloomberg it got even better. I'm just talking basic living, you go home after a gig late night, without a worry in the world, I say thank you to these mayors.

Now I left NYC in 2019 and visited again in Feb 2025 to see my friends and whatnot, and oh boy, did the city changed. The locked up shelves in stores, lawlessnes in subway, so much crazies and homeless... I walk into Duane Reade, and in 5 minutes I see a shoplifter openly putting things in his bag from unlocked shelves, yelled at from the counter, and still casually walking out of the store without paying of course. I was truly shocked, and the look of old lady at the counter, I'll never forget it, so tired and hopless. Wtf happened, where is the police, where is the law?

Let me say it, the bail reform, the progressive policies, it ruins cities! I was always on the Democratic side, but if that's what they represent now, I'm out.

[pamosmusic]

Now I left NYC in 2019 and visited again in Feb 2025 ...

Let me say it, the bail reform, the progressive policies, it ruins cities! I was always on the Democratic side, but if that's what they represent now, I'm out.

So just to make sure I'm reading this right. You left a lovely city after six years of Bill DiBlasio. You returned to a terrible lawless city after four years of Eric Adams (former police captain, former republican, current ally of Trump, friend of police unions, opponent of bail reform and corrections reform generally).

If you want to actually have a conversation about this, we should probably note that crime fell precipitously across the entire country during the nineties. It fell a bit more in New York, so I wouldn't go so far as to say that Giuliani and Bloomberg had nothing to do with it, but you'd need to check their work against the work of other mayors in other cities, rather than a point A to point B comparison in New York itself.

And it also seems you weren't in New York during the worst phase of the pandemic. As someone who was, I can tell you that, whatever you think the impact was, you're almost certainly underestimating it. It was a truly devastating period of time that the city probably won't fully recover from for a long time.

But yeah. Sure. Progressive mayors or whatever.

[Hep To The Jive]

So just to make sure I'm reading this right. You left a lovely city after six years of Bill DiBlasio. You returned to a terrible lawless city after four years of Eric Adams (former police captain, former republican, current ally of Trump, friend of police unions, opponent of bail reform and corrections reform generally).

If you want to actually have a conversation about this, we should probably note that crime fell precipitously across the entire country during the nineties. It fell a bit more in New York, so I wouldn't go so far as to say that Giuliani and Bloomberg had nothing to do with it, but you'd need to check their work against the work of other mayors in other cities, rather than a point A to point B comparison in New York itself.

And it also seems you weren't in New York during the worst phase of the pandemic. As someone who was, I can tell you that, whatever you think the impact was, you're almost certainly underestimating it. It was a truly devastating period of time that the city probably won't fully recover from for a long time.

But yeah. Sure. Progressive mayors or whatever.

yes you're reading it correct. It's probably true what you say about Eric Adams, so I'm not sure it's all his fault, maybe it has something to do with the state governor? I think on the state level they really pushed the criminal reforms?

I'm not buying the Covid excuse. Here in Shanghai was the cruelest and most economically devastating lock down like you can't even come close to imagining what it was like, trust me, and yet I don't see any spikes in crime or anything like that. In fact I don't see any crime at all. Like nothing.

I'm sorry any criminal justice bail reforms coming from progressives is doomed to fail in the cities like NYC. Defund the police, diminished the jail population is not working. Need more police, lock up the criminals, that's what Guilliani and Bloomberg understood well. I wanna see how Mandani is going to fare. If I'm wrong I'll admit it.

Also another pathetic policy to freeze the rent to solve the housing crisis. Yea, the rent prices are insane, but how about... build more houses, how about that? I think even children would understand it. Again, what I'm observing here in China they build resedential buildings like there's no tomorrow, in 5 years the neighborhood I moved in first they build so much I can't recognize it when I'm there. Yet in NYC they stiffled any construction through crazy regulations and zonings or whatever you call it. My ex worked part time as a construction firms lawer, she told me it's like a goverment racket to penalize the developers for any little violations, no matter how absurd. Same like a parking tickets, revenue for the city.

[pamosmusic]

yes you're reading it correct. It's probably true what you say about Eric Adams, so I'm not sure it's all his fault, maybe it has something to do with the state governor? I think on the state level they really pushed the criminal reforms?

Kathy Hochul?

Try again on that one. It sounds like maybe you’re out of step on the New York politics and might want to slow your roll.

I'm not buying the Covid excuse. Here in Shanghai was the cruelest and most economically devastating lock down like you can't even come close to imagining what it was like, trust me, and yet I don't see any spikes in crime or anything like that. In fact I don't see any crime at all. Like nothing.

Uh … Shanghai … like mainland China Shanghai? That cruel and devastating lockdown probably has something to do with the political structure in China. Does the subsequent lack of visible crime have something to do with it as well? what is policing like in China these days? Is that what we’re going for in the Big Apple?

Defund the police, diminished the jail population is not working. Need more police, lock up the criminals, that's what Guilliani and Bloomberg understood well. I wanna see how Mandani is going to fare. If I'm wrong I'll admit it.

Police were never defunded dude. They routinely have an operating budget larger than most small militaries. You shouldn’t be asking why people want to defund the police when it doesn’t lead to the city you want — you should be asking why NYPD can’t give you the city you want on a 6-8 billion dollar budget.

Again, you seem pretty out of step with the reality of the city you’re slamming on, so you might want to slow your roll.

Also another pathetic policy to freeze the rent to solve the housing crisis. Yea, the rent prices are insane, but how about... build more houses, how about that? I think even children would understand it. Again, what I'm observing here in China they build resedential buildings like there's no tomorrow, in 5 years the neighborhood I moved in first they build so much I can't recognize it when I'm there. Yet in NYC they stiffled any construction through crazy regulations and zonings or whatever you call it. My ex worked part time as a construction firms lawer, she told me it's like a goverment racket to penalize the developers for any little violations, no matter how absurd. Same like a parking tickets, revenue for the city.

That one’s fair. Though I will say that the people who are opposed to a rent freeze are also generally the same ones opposed to new construction that would slow increases in the value of existing real estate.

[charlieparker]

Just thought I would chime in and say the open studio guys have a podcast on whether you should move yo LA, NYC, Paris. or Tokyo.

You'll Hear It | Should You Move to NYC/Paris/LA/Tokyo? - #57

[AllanAllen]

Just thought I would chime in and say the open studio guys have a podcast on whether you should move yo LA, NYC, Paris. or Tokyo.

You'll Hear It | Should You Move to NYC/Paris/LA/Tokyo? - #57

I would totally go to Japan. The YouTube algorithm feeds me a constant flow of very talented Japanese jazz guitarists.

[pamosmusic]

I would totally go to Japan. The YouTube algorithm feeds me a constant flow of very talented Japanese jazz guitarists.

A great jazz city *and* a great food city?

Tokyo sounds great to me.

[Freddels]

Just thought I would chime in and say the open studio guys have a podcast on whether you should move yo LA, NYC, Paris. or Tokyo.

You'll Hear It | Should You Move to NYC/Paris/LA/Tokyo? - #57

I think Paris is in my future.

[mvp019aa]

Just remember, going to Japan you'll never experience a subway station that smells like spoiled hot dogs and dried urine...

[pamosmusic]

Just remember, going to Japan you'll never experience a subway station that smells like spoiled hot dogs and dried urine...

That’s true. New York rules.

[Hep To The Jive]

Kathy Hochul?

Try again on that one. It sounds like maybe you’re out of step on the New York politics and might want to slow your roll.



Uh … Shanghai … like mainland China Shanghai? That cruel and devastating lockdown probably has something to do with the political structure in China. Does the subsequent lack of visible crime have something to do with it as well? what is policing like in China these days? Is that what we’re going for in the Big Apple?



Police were never defunded dude. They routinely have an operating budget larger than most small militaries. You shouldn’t be asking why people want to defund the police when it doesn’t lead to the city you want — you should be asking why NYPD can’t give you the city you want on a 6-8 billion dollar budget.

Again, you seem pretty out of step with the reality of the city you’re slamming on, so you might want to slow your roll.



That one’s fair. Though I will say that the people who are opposed to a rent freeze are also generally the same ones opposed to new construction that would slow increases in the value of existing real estate.

This one is easy dude, the police can't do much when they catch a criminal and a judge let them go the next day. I watch news, there are too many cases when mentally unstable people commit crime and turns out they have a record of 80 something prior arrests only to be released free. I might not know all the in and outs of NY politics but I sure see the results. You can't just dismiss what I saw with my own eyes, my experience of NYC, after I lived there more than 20 years. So back to the criminal 'reforms' policies, they suck!

Political structure of China aside( a lot could be be said here that I hate), how they deal with non political crime I have no problem with. I can leave my bike on a street unchained for a day and nothing will happen to it. Asia is the land of scooters, and in China also it's the main transport. I asked people who lived here long was it always safe here, they said they used to have a problem with stealing batteries, now the law is 10 years for stealing, it stopped! Easy, efficient.

[pamosmusic]

I watch news

I gathered that much.

they said they used to have a problem with stealing batteries, now the law is 10 years for stealing, it stopped! Easy, efficient.

It's possible we want to live in very different worlds.

[Hep To The Jive]

It's possible we want to live in very different worlds.

It's possible you don't want to admit the reality.

[CliffR]

I'm not sure I'd describe locking somebody up for 10 years with bed and board for the stealing a battery as 'efficient'.

[pamosmusic]

It's possible you don't want to admit the reality.

It’s possible you just lost your New York grit.

Somehow I managed to witness a few subway fights and the occasional shoplifter without thinking they all needed to be buried under the jail to make me more comfortable.

[AllanAllen]

This guy... supporting Communism(The political system of China/Shaingai) while also lamenting the "Communist" NYC Mayor.

[David B]

Like many others, I assume, I've often thought of moving to New York to be at the center of the jazz scene. As someone living in Ireland, the scene is quite small and we don't get a lot of 'big name' jazz musicians coming here.
A question to people who perhaps live or have lived in New York City, would you recommend moving there as a jazz musician? Even for a few months. And if not, where else would you recommend! I'm planning on moving away for a while after I finish my degree in jazz. Thanks!

To the OP, who has been back online in the last couple of days:

I would certainly recommend taking a serious look at the Tribeca Jazz Institute, run by saxophonist Grant Stewart. They offer 12 week programmes. Entry is by audition and the focus is very much on learning from working musicians. A focus on ensemble playing and learning, with personal guitar tuition from the likes of Peter Bernstein, Ed Cherry and Pasquale Grasso.

TRIBECA JAZZ INSTITUTE | Church Street School

I know of a few young musicians from Ireland and the UK who have taken part, and had great experiences.

If I was 20 years younger and had some talent, I would apply for this in a heartbeat. It would be a great way to make contacts and get a taste for whether New York is a good fit for you.

Grant Stewart writes:

A Letter from the Artistic Director


What we are offering here is not for everyone. The Tribeca Jazz Institute is directed towards the few players in each class that are already close to professional level and have the clear goal of becoming the best jazz artist they can be. Maybe you’re about to enrol at a college for jazz performance and have a year off before you attend. Maybe you’ve just finished a jazz degree somewhere and feel that you’re in need of a sort of “finishing school” as you enter the scene, or perhaps you’re already a professional but feel like you’re stuck and can’t get past a plateau. In any of these cases this is the program for you.

We believe we can only teach our art the way we learned it, and the way we learned to play jazz music was through one-on-one private instruction and mentorship, and by playing under the guidance of great musicians. That is what is at the core of this program. Each semester will be an intensive 12 weeks of lessons and apprenticeship combined with 3 weekly three-hour “sessions” with the top jazz artists working on the NYC jazz scene.

As a musician, your late teens and early 20’s are almost always the most important developmental years and essentially, when the artist is formed. This time must be taken advantage of fully if your goal is to reach your true potential as a player. We believe that the other aspects of music education (the countless extra courses, papers, and projects demanded by a jazz performance degree) can be put on the back burner until the primary goal is achieved. Don’t get us wrong – we believe a university education is invaluable and encourage anyone that can go to do it. However, our objective is to make you the best musician you can be and if this is the right program for you (and you are the right student for the program), the distractions of a conventional performance degree are not necessary right now. Not to be overlooked is the cost of said degree at any of the main schools in New York City, on average around $60,000 per year. In the end the young artist is often saddled with debt and no realistic means of paying off a $200,000 education.

At the Tribeca Jazz Institute, the relationship between the students and resident teaching artists extends beyond the walls of the school, building a bridge towards integration into the professional jazz scene. This is our true goal for you. We look forward to seeing what can happen when exceptionally talented young musicians are placed in a “supercharged” environment to propel them forward artistically, and? their abilities are given the resources and nurturing they rightly deserve.

[Hep To The Jive]

It’s possible you just lost your New York grit.

Somehow I managed to witness a few subway fights and the occasional shoplifter without thinking they all needed to be buried under the jail to make me more comfortable.

Maybe, but it doesn't make me feel good that politicians choose to have more sympathy for the criminals than normal people. That's why I brought up the mayors that I mentioned, their way of looking at it aligns with mine.