Tube amp alternatives to Fender

Jazzman301 · #1 11-30-2011, 12:34 AM

So rather than flood this with various amp threads I thought I might attempt to consolidate.

Based on my conversation with Ampeg today it seems that their suggestion for something that MIGHT be serviceable as a jazz amp might be the Ampeg GVT52. But their amps are more blues/rock amps and he GVT15 and GVT 22 are not amps you would really want to employ as full time jazz amps. The cats at Ampeg told me to check out Blackstar that those are designed to be cleaner. I will try to talk to them this week and see what they have to say.

There are mixed reviews with various Bugera amps...I know they have Lee Ritenour endorsing them.

My friend hipped me to VHT classic 18. Its an El34 powered amp with 12AX7s and spring reverb...I will try to give them a call and see what they have to say.

Does ayone else have any lower cost TUBE amp alternatives to Fender Princeton Reverb or Deluxe Reverb reissues? Also before someone chimes in with Roland Cube fill in the blank I curretly own a Cube 80XL.

'Mike

Tom Karol · #2 11-30-2011, 06:56 AM

Peavey Classic 30?

marcwhy · #3 11-30-2011, 07:09 AM

A similar thread started here earlier yesterday -- a few suggestions are there already.

Also, can you define "lower cost?" What are you willing to spend on a decent tube amp? As you probably know, tube amps for jazz can go for $200 - 3000, so it really depends on what you're willing to spend ...

Hjalmiz · #4 11-30-2011, 07:33 AM

HI
Dont know what guitar u use but check out Vox Ac 15. I have bypased the tone controls on mine and use a Empress Para EQ instead. It works realy well for all my guitars. Also , are u sure that u want a Tube amp ? Lower priced ones are a bit funky when i comes to quality and tubes issues like ratteling and humming sounds can realy irritate the hell out of u if u use a more acoustic instrument like a archtop.

AcornHouse · #5 11-30-2011, 08:26 AM

Although it'll be harder to find, Guild's tube amps from the '60s are made for Jazz.
I have a 1960 99J, 1X12, 30w that, combined with my Guild X-170, is just pure jazz tones. They also made a 20w version, the 66J. They have tremelo, but no reverb, and you don't really miss it. I paid approx. $300 for it, put another $200 to get it cleaned up (3-prong put in, various caps replaced, new power supply), and it is magical. Absolutely no hum, and pure buttery tones.
Well worth seeking out.

Jazzman301 · #6 11-30-2011, 08:45 AM

In the stable right now is a Peerless Monarch 17 with routed set humbucker(custom for Lou over at Guitarsnjazz.com). A gorgeous 67 Guild X50 with a single coil "mickey mouse" pickup, a Guild M75 chambered solid body, and a Gretsch G100CE with a USA handmade Kent Armstrong floating PAF. The Monarch is strung with Labella Black nylon wrapped 14s, the X50 with Benedetto round wound 12s, the M75 with GHS Pat Martinos and the G100CE with Labella Flatwound 12s.

As to what I want to spend...I guess I want to see what, of true and honest value and quality tone for jazz, can be had for LESS than a Fender. Lets say for the sake of this less than the cost of a Fender deluxe( say $1100...given you can get a DRRI or some vintage amps for about that).

'Mike

jmstritt · #7 11-30-2011, 09:04 AM

I would look for a vintage Ampeg. If you are looking for a clean jazz tone you can find the old Ampeg Gemini amps for around 800-900 on the vintage market. Those are fat sounding clean jazz toned 1x15 combos that were designed for jazz players. I know that Johnny Smith used one back in the day and some other heavy hitters as well.

dmorash · #8 11-30-2011, 09:40 AM

Too bad the new Ampegs are not strong enough with the clean sound. You may be able to find a Mesa Boogie used - like the subway or studio series. The old ampegs (I had a Gemini with a 15" speaker) are very cool. The Peavey Classics are very decent amps to my ears as well. The Egnaters look like they might really be on to something but I have not had the chance to try one. For me, there's not much that trumps a Fender clean sound, all things considered.

Jazzman301 · #9 11-30-2011, 10:42 AM

I found a 95 Mesa Boogie Subway blues on gbase. Seems interesting and I dig the $495 price tag. I am not sure how the El84 will sound for jazz....any thoughts? I wonder how accurate their assertion that this is like a EL84 Princeton reverb.
1995 Mesa Boogie Subway Blues Black > Amps & Preamps - Lark Street Music | Gbase.com

I am not sure how EL84 tubes "color" sound compared to the 6V6 or 6L6.

Thoughts?

'Mike

dmorash · #10 11-30-2011, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzman301

I found a 95 Mesa Boogie Subway blues on gbase. Seems interesting and I dig the $495 price tag. I am not sure how the El84 will sound for jazz....any thoughts? I wonder how accurate their assertion that this is like a EL84 Princeton reverb.
1995 Mesa Boogie Subway Blues Black > Amps & Preamps - Lark Street Music | Gbase.com

I am not sure how EL84 tubes "color" sound compared to the 6V6 or 6L6.

Thoughts?

'Mike

I've tried that model of amp before. It's the perfect size and weight. The El 84's have kind of a neat spongy feel to them. For me it has a bit of a dry boxy sound (although the reverb is really good). I found myself playing with a lighter touch since Mesa's seem to bark in the midrange if you play them hard. It did appeal to me somewhat, but at the end of the day, if I plug into my Deluxe Reverb I'm liking that sound much, much more and even my dirt cheap Super Champ sounded better for what I want to hear (Clean sound for jazz). Another consideration is these amps have a lot of hiss at idle (I notice they mention that in the ad). The one I tried was modded to reduce the noise and it still had enough to kind of drive me crazy at times.

Jim Soloway · #11 11-30-2011, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzman301

I found a 95 Mesa Boogie Subway blues on gbase. Seems interesting and I dig the $495 price tag. I am not sure how the El84 will sound for jazz....any thoughts? I wonder how accurate their assertion that this is like a EL84 Princeton reverb.
1995 Mesa Boogie Subway Blues Black > Amps & Preamps - Lark Street Music | Gbase.com

I am not sure how EL84 tubes "color" sound compared to the 6V6 or 6L6.

Thoughts?

'Mike

I have never managed to get a sound I like out of an EL84 based amp and I've tried a bunch of them. Most of them are voiced for rock so they break up too early and those that aren't have always struck me as having a tone that's too thin and glassy for my taste. 6V6's and 6L6's have always worked much better for me.

Jazzman301 · #12 11-30-2011, 11:58 AM

It seems that 6L6 and 6V6 tube are the ones tha provide cleaner tones that breakup later.

I am kind of curious about the Bugera stuff...the price is way cheap and from what I have heard they are essentially trying to clone "american" (read as Fender) tones at a more reasonable price....Not sure if I am willing to grab oe and check it out. Maybe JUST maybe grab 2-3 amps from Zzouds or AMS and A/B/C them. Say a Fender deluxe, Ampeg GVT15....Keep the winner and return the others...Not sure if its really worth all the return hassle....

'Mike

cjm · #13 11-30-2011, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzman301

It seems that 6L6 and 6V6 tube are the ones tha provide cleaner tones that breakup later.

And it's a sound I like...but really, if the goal is to operate a 6L6 within the linear portion of its response curve (again, great idea!) why not just go solid state?

The big difference between a good tube amp and a good solid state amp for jazz -- really isn't a big difference at all -- until the amp is driven just to the point of non linear response. Then the differences really become apparent.

But if that's not what you're after...solid state usually saves expense and sometimes, a whole bunch of hassle.

Pat Clare · #14 11-30-2011, 12:26 PM

I've recently got a " Vintage Sound Amp" with 6L6 and 6V6 tubes. It wasn't cheap but is voiced for jazz guitar and sounds great.

Jazzman301 · #15 11-30-2011, 01:06 PM

I already have a very useable Roland Cube 80XL. It has a good tone for jazz especially on the JC120 channel. Its a good sound...but not as warm as tubes, at least not to my ears. The folks over at Bugera recently contacted me via email saying that their V55 might be more suited to Jazz and the "brand F" sound with the 6L6s and 12AX7s. For under $500 it MIGHT be worth a shot. I am going to call them and find out how this will sound at living room levels. I think it has a "half" power mode which should bring it down in the neighborhood of a Deluxe reverbs output wattage.

'Mike

cjm · #16 11-30-2011, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzman301

I already have a very useable Roland Cube 80XL. It has a good tone for jazz especially on the JC120 channel. Its a good sound...but not as warm as tubes, at least not to my ears.

I understand completely...but I'll mention that another member here is selling a fairly late model Polytone Minibrute II for only $315.00. In my opinion, that's in a different league altogether than the Cube, and at a pretty reasonable price.

jmstritt · #17 11-30-2011, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjm

I understand completely...but I'll mention that another member here is selling a fairly late model Polytone Minibrute II for only $315.00. In my opinion, that's in a different league altogether than the Cube, and at a pretty reasonable price.

I don't want to hijack the thread, but cjm would you please PM me the info for the person selling that Polytone? I might be interested.

jorgemg1984 · #18 11-30-2011, 04:35 PM

If you want the Fender sound go for it. Fender is actually probably the cheapest way - boutique Fender clones are usually more expensive.

Where do you live? Look for a used Fender, you can find good amps at good prices.

SamBooka · #19 11-30-2011, 06:57 PM

jazz guitarists are a funny lot.. So I look around my office and see 17 tube amps dating from 1960 to 2009...

The amp that inspires me the most right now is a line6 pocket pod..

Right tool for the job. I know (believe me I know) tube amps are special but for jazz you would be surprised how well Solid State works. There are DOG tube amps and DOG ss amps.. ditto for for the good ones.

jorgemg1984 · #20 11-30-2011, 07:15 PM

I agree with you - actually I only have solid state amps these days. But I plan on getting a good blackface tube head to drive my recent 2x12 cabinet one of these days, there's something about tubes you cannot get on a solid state.

For me tubes are not better they are just different. (Maybe in the end I find out my jazzmaster ultralight head can give me good blackface tones, who knows...)

Jazzman301 · #21 11-30-2011, 07:45 PM

I am not saying tubes are better. I am saying they are a sound that I can't dial in on my SS Cube 80XL. The Roland Cube 80XL is a great amp that can easily hold down full time employment as a jazz amp. I just want to ADD something to the stable.

I think at this point I will call VHT and see what they have to say. But baring something inspiring from them I think Fender it is.
The real questions becomes do I get the Princeton reverb OR do I get a Deluxe reverb? I think a local pawn shop has a Deluxe for about $575...have to check it out. I just want to make sure that whatever I get will work and sound good at livingroom levels...I KNOW the Princeton will sound good at low volume I have no real experience with the Deluxe though.

jorgemg1984 · #22 11-30-2011, 08:11 PM

Yes, that's what I said, tubes are not better just different.

If the Deluxe is in good condition that's a great price. Don' konw about living room sounds on that amp but there are some Deluxe users here that can tell you.

IMO you will love the Deluxe if you like the Cube 80 so much... I say this because I do not love the Cube at all and I think the Deliuxe is a huge improvement over the Cube (although is also not my cup of tea because of the lack of a middle control - but that's an easy mod)

Jim Soloway · #23 11-30-2011, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzman301

I am not saying tubes are better. I am saying they are a sound that I can't dial in on my SS Cube 80XL. The Roland Cube 80XL is a great amp that can easily hold down full time employment as a jazz amp. I just want to ADD something to the stable.

I think at this point I will call VHT and see what they have to say. But baring something inspiring from them I think Fender it is.
The real questions becomes do I get the Princeton reverb OR do I get a Deluxe reverb? I think a local pawn shop has a Deluxe for about $575...have to check it out. I just want to make sure that whatever I get will work and sound good at livingroom levels...I KNOW the Princeton will sound good at low volume I have no real experience with the Deluxe though.

If you're looking for living room volumes, I'd suggest the Princeton Reverb. It has a wonderful warm tone at conversational volume levels. You might want to invest in a speaker upgrade. Something like an Eminence Copperhead will give you a bit more headroom without costing an arm and a leg.

jorgemg1984 · #24 11-30-2011, 08:28 PM

Or a Lil Buddy, Cannabis Rex's young brother.

Jazzman301 · #25 11-30-2011, 09:35 PM

I like the idea of a Preinceton with a 12" speaker but I have NEVER modded any amp before and I am not sure how hard that would be.
Is the Princeton something that you could gig with if you mic'd it or should I get the Deluxe reverb?

'Mike

Dennis D · #26 11-30-2011, 10:44 PM

..Spring Reverb, delay....can't recall the exact model anymore,or tube configuration......I never gigged with it, and word was they had no guts on a gig whatsoever......and it weighed a ton.......But - at low / living room volume, with a hint of reverb, low bass, and little more treble, I could absolutely nail Jim Hall / Wes sound with my 60's ES-175. It looked like the day it was made, except for dust- and all it brought was $400. Hope that helps.
Dennis

Hammertone · #27 11-30-2011, 11:46 PM

Here's a quick look at various cool old Ampegs as of today on ebay. I am not affiliated with any of them:

I have one of these. It's one I would buy RIGHT NOW if I needed a fantastic-sounding, easy to service combo amp for jazz. Factory rated at 35 watts, not 30 as in the ad, and Ampeg didn't lie about this stuff. Sort of like a Fender Pro Reverb. Fantastic bang per buck at that BIN, even if shipping costs $100. Looks really clean:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/vtg-AMPEG-GE...t_19668wt_1293

THE cool kids Ampeg. A GREAT amp but I don't gig with mine. Excellent price and also looks really clean:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ampeg-Super-...c#ht_829wt_990

Reasonable opening bids:
VINTAGE 60'S AMPEG GS-12R REVERB ROCKET 2 GUITAR AMP WITH ORIGINAL PEDAL | eBay
1966 Ampeg Gemini VI Guitar Amp With 15" Speaker | eBay

More:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/67-Ampeg-Gem...a#ht_772wt_990
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-Ampeg-G...c#ht_500wt_990
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-60S-...9#ht_500wt_990

This store always has a pile of old Ampegs on ebay, all overpriced:
eBay My World - michaelsmusicofny

IbanezAS100 · #28 12-01-2011, 01:31 AM

If you're looking for something between a Princeton and a Deluxe and your budget is $1100, maybe this would be interesting:

Vintage Tube Amplifier - Firebelly Amplifier Company

I'm talking about the PR3512 model

Model PR3512 - $1,049.99 (Higher Output version)

Single Channel, dual input,

Class, A/B, 35 watts RMS Output

2-6L6GC's, 4-12AX7's, 1 - 12" Combo.

Review can be found here:

FireBelly DL2212SE Firebelly Amplifiers Company (310) 315-5404 www.firebellyamps.com MODEL: DL2212SE PRICE: Special Edition (SE) $1,395 List Standard Version $1,049 List CHANNELS: Two CONTROLS: Normal Channel: Bright Switch Volume, Treble Bass Vibrat

I'm looking for something similar and if I was in the US I'd definitely check these out.

Also, a used Alessandro Working Dog Rottweiler would be worth checking out-lightweight, 40W, 6l6s.

Brunetti Singleman would also fit the bill but not sure how easily you can find one in the US.

At the lower end of your budget, a Traynor YCV40 could also be good for Fenderish cleans.

Hope this helps and if you find what you're looking for, please share....

63Bigsby · #29 12-01-2011, 03:32 AM

This was the workhorse for pretty much every NY jazz guy in the 50's. Clean, buttery, hi-fi-like fat tone. Not sure what speaker is in there now but if I already didn't have a vintage Ampeg I'd grab this in a heartbeat:
1960 Ampeg Guitar Amp Gray > Amps & Preamps - Kentucky Vintage Guitars | Gbase.com

jorgemg1984 · #30 12-01-2011, 05:34 AM

Man you seem to want too many things in one amp - cheap and good souding at home and at gigs. A Deluxe won't cut trough in many live sitations, maybe you need something in the 35w / 40w area for gigs and get an attenuator to use at home. Or just use 40w at low volume at home, it might sound good. Or just use the Cube 80 at home and the fender on gigs.

Here's a beefed up Princeton

Tube-Tone Amplifiers

And btw do you plan to use a tube amp for home practice? I practice around 40h / 50h a week at home and I always use solid state amps (it's all I have these days but even when I had tube amps I did the same). Solid state amps tend to sound better at low volumes and you'll spend a lot of money on tubes if you use a tube amp for practice (if you practice a lot of course)