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When I have the chance I will try the Mustang, if it can give you a sound close to the DRRI it's a bargain
Originally Posted by Al_F
I expect it to be better than the Blackface setting on Cubes which sounds OK just not very Blackface...
I actually feel my jazzmaster ultralight head can give me a nice tube feel, although nothing replaces the real thing.
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12-02-2011 06:44 AM
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No. Originally Posted by Jazzman301
The original Reverb Rocket (top-mounted controls) went through various iterations and is a great blues amp - a fifties amp, IMO. The Reverb Rocket 2 series (front-mounted controls) is a sixties amp, IMO. It also went through various iterations, but the ones I have owned in the past have given me way more headroom/clean volume than the older model Reverb Rockets.
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I have owned the bugera V55 and I currently own a Classic 30 along with a DRRI.
Spend a little extra money and get the DRRI.
I really wanted to like the Classic 30 and V55, but here were my issues:
V55; Too damned heavy and a lot more chime than I needed. I didn't particularly enjoy it as amp for jazz tones, but it did other stuff well.
Classic 30; I had the DRRI and the C30 side by side last night and there is definitely something lacking with the C30. I really do enjoy the cleans on the C30 though, but as I said, there is something a bit dry about that amp when it is next to a Deluxe Reverb. It also has that infamous "tube rattle" thing going on. I know that is something that is easily fixable, but when I have the Deluxe Reverb next to it, I find myself asking why I need to jump through hoops to make something work.
The only think I had done to my DRRI was getting the bright cap adjusted to help with the highs, having the reverb modified so it is less over the friggin' top (My tech went in an either clipped something or replaced a small part. It was dirt cheap. Now I can use the reverb on any number and it is way more mellow), and having a Pentode - Triode switch installed. That switch really takes the amp to a new level for me. I can't really explain what it is, but it cuts the power down some and gives you a fatter sound which I think sounds great for jazz.
Now all those things I had done cost me around $30. I didn't even know those mods existed when I went to see my amp guy. I was just bringing it in for a check up and getting the amp biased so it didn't break up as early (I can put the amp on 10 now and it is crystal clear). I was perfectly happy with the amp before that, but $50 dollars later it was on a whole new level.
I even went and got a Weber 12F150 with a beam blocker. I haven't even installed it yet because I am still satisfied with the sound. Either way, I bought the amp for $650, mint condition, and got some things done to it that took less than a day to do. For less than $700 I have an amp that I use exclusively. It takes pedals well too.
Some people may say it isn't loud enough, but I have done Jazz and Rock gigs with this (think extremely hard hitting drummer) and had no trouble keeping up. I think you would be certainly happy with this amp. Once you have played one you will know where the extra money went.Last edited by Silence; 12-03-2011 at 02:28 PM.
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Hammertone or anyone for that matter know if this has Reverb?
eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices
Yes I know Reverb is in the name...the seller says it has echo and has mplied that Ampeg called their reverb echo...
Thanks guys.
Thanks for the informatino Silence. Its seems no one has anything great to say about the Bugera stuff. Some stuff better than others but nothing I would call a glowing review. I think if I don't win the bid for this possibly dirt cheap PRRI I am bidding on it might pull the trigger early next week on a Princeton Reverb II.
I have to say as someone who has been on many forums as a member and a troller...this is by far the most helpful.
'Mike
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Couldn't agree more. Originally Posted by Jazzman301
I have to say you take the expression GAS to a whole new level. I have said this to you before, google and ebay are not the best way to find good amps. Go out and try the real stuff...
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I hear you. But I am in an area where the closest Guitar Center(for instance) is nearly an hour from me. The more local shops can all "order" me what I want to try but there is always pressure to buy.
I have it down between the PR in one form or another and the Ampeg above. Not sure what I would be more happy with. I may have another lead on a Princeton Reverb II again. $800 shipped. I feel like this is worth it and will most likely be very happy with this. It has the output I am looking for and speaker size. Not to mention to bonus of being a hand wired Rivera for well under a grand.
'Mike
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No problem, Jazzman.
I hope it works out with the Princeton. Although the princeton may not be clean enough. I am sure you should be able to get it biased so it doesn't break up though.
I really tried to like the Bugera and Classic 30, but at the end of the day I didn't like the sound and feel of those amps compared to the DRRI. I did gig with them a lot and they served me well, but once I heard the Deluxe Reverb it was over for those two amps. For their price point (used), I think they are great tube amps to start out with though.
Alright, I will stop with my DRRI fan boy rubbish.
Jorge is right though; you will waste sooooo much time on forums and review pages trying to decide which piece of gear is best, but you really do have to play them to know because it all comes down to your ears.
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link is dead
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I know that I liked the Princeton Reverb I played this Summer. I also know that I would prefer something around 20ish watts. So to me the Princeton Reverb II is more or less fitting all of my needs.
20 or so watts
12" speaker
Reverb
and a nice warm clean tone. (I know that I like the Princeton sound)
How does the Deluxe Reverb compare to the Princeton Reverb sound wise? Is it the same tone just more watts than the Princeton?
As for internet and forums...I agree with you BUT with work and family and a general lack of stuff to try in a reasonable distance this is the best alternative.
I bought a Peerless Monarch with a set humbucker based on hearing it in Youtube videos and the HIGH recomendations from Lou over at Guitarsnjazz. Once I got it I was really happy. Once I changed to the black nylon wound 14s from Labella I was extatic. Its every bit that Wes tone I was looking for. Even the stock pickup is good enough that I have not changed it out. So thus far using the net and forums(all taken with a grain of salt so to speak) I have had good luck making purchases this way.
'Mike
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I had no idea they made Princetons with a 12'' speaker. I bet that sounds pretty damn sweet though. I may have skimmed over a previous post when it was mentioned that they do make those models, but is it modded or a previous model?
Yeah, I didn't mean to say that internet forums are completely bad. Hell, you selected good equipment because of it. For me, sometimes I end up sitting too long thinking about what to buy rather than just doing it hah.
How's that Monarch? I have been drooling over those Peerless guitars for the past couple of days and am considering buying one once I offload some gear I don't use. I am going to be up in NY around xmas and was considering going to the guitarsnjazz store in NJ.
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It is arguable that the deluxe reverb is the best sounding combo amp for all styles that was ever mass produced.
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+65
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I have several guitars and several amps, but the sound(s) I like most come from using any of them through my Boss Deluxe pedal. I'm no expert, and my ears, if ever they were any good, are now somewhat 'shot' with age; nevertheless I would suggest that it's a good way of getting an excellent tone from just about any reasonable gear. For home use (my case...), I need nothing more. Just saying...
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Unofficial Fender Princeton Reverb II page
Sorry, here's the link.
BEWARE the differences between a rivera princeton and a blackface princeton!
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Yes, it has reverb. Originally Posted by Jazzman301
Yes, Ampeg called reverb echo.
Ampeg made tons of these.
They are great for jazz.
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Silence...I LOVE that Peerless Monarch. I opted for the set/routed humbucker and on top of it Lou found me one that is in a sort of Tea burst(think Tal). I have not seen another one like it. Lou is a just a gem of a guy. He is a musician and a jazz head. It is well worth the trip to his shop. Its FULL of archtops of all sorts along with other goodies. He actually owns a pharmacy or two and does the guitar thing as, well a side thing...kind of. He seems to man the guitar shop nearly full time as the Pharmacy thing seems to require less of his attention. I HIGHLY recomend Peerless and Lou at Guitarsnjazz.
I am real interested in these Princeton Reverb IIs. I like the added mid control along with the 12" speaker and slightly higher output. They seem very interesting. I am curious how closely "voiced", so to speak, the Princeton Reverb is to the deluxe Reverb.
hammertone: If I don't get the dirt cheap PRRI I think I will jump on the Ampeg for the price and keep my eyes open for a PRII.
I honestly appreciate all the information shared. I hope that this thread helps someone else down the road. Not everyone can afford a $1,000 Deluxe reverb or a $900 Princeton Reverb.
'Mike
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Hi folks,
For a state of the art light tube amp (less than 10 pounds) with gorgeous tone and unique design i'll throw in the Reussenzehn archtop tube
Reußenzehn Archtop-Tube
You have to combine it with a speaker of your choice. They also offer high quality ones to go with the amp. You'll find soundclips on google. I don't have one (yet) but i like the idea, the design and the tone.
At the low pricepoint +1 from me for the Fender Superchamp. It has a nice tube tone and the amp models sound decent. To compete with a drummer is tough though - a rock drummer that is. For that undertking it might be a bit weak, but for not so loud gigs it is certainly fine. I think the Superchamp is complementary to the Cube which i also really like on the clean channel (don't care too much about their valve simulations though).
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I had seen that amp once but I gave up whan I saw the videos... the guy with the arctop can make a neck pickup sound like a bride pickup (not sure if it's the amp or his playing). For the price of the standard version (1000€ just for the head) I would go for a used fender.
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it is true that the soundclip might not be terribly convincing. In the german archtop community at least that design is quite popular though. I also find it pretty cool. Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
Also, these people make custom tube amps with excellent reputation (http://www.threemen.de/). Haven't heard them myself though.
It looks like in terms of the Fender amps people are gravitating towards either the deluxe reverb or the Princeton reverb. But both are kind of weak with 15 and 22 watts. Is that enough to keep up with a drummer and still maintain a nice clean tone? (the blues player apparently really like how these amps distort at higher volumes but that is not quite what the jazz players want). I really wonder if this will work. Which of the larger Fender tube amps would provide a similar tone and has more clean headroom?
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Yeah and the clips are very misleading both ways - some things sound good on youtube and end up being just OK and also the opposite.
I always had a love / hate relationship with Fender amps. When voiced correctly (some minor mods to the circuit) you can make them sound really really good but I never liked Fender products in some things - as you said the portable ones like Deluxe or Princeton end up not being loud enough for a lots of situations. The loud ones end up being very heavy - Vibrolux, Super Reverb, Pro Reverb, Twin, etc...
Jazz players have beefed up Deluxes and Princetons for a long time in order to reach the desired 35w / 40w (new OTs, 6l6, and other mods to increase clean headroom which is what measures watts in tube amps) and still have a small liftable package.
I always whised Fender come up with a 40w single channel with blackface sound and great reverb (like Gries 35 for example or Allen Old Flame which is not exactly a Blackface but has the spirit). And I always wished they made a good blakcface head with reverb you could match with your cabinets (they later had the silverface Bandmaster Reverb I think). I thought they would make this desgins these days but it seems they have dedicated themselves to make not so accurate cheap copies of their old amps.
I myself will get a Super Reverb blackface head kit. I rather have two liftable pieces (head and cabinet) than one very heavy one. And actually a lot of times what changed between Fender amps were speakers - 1x12 or 2x12 or 1x5 or 4x10 or... With a good head it's like you could have any Fender amp if you are willing to invest in lots of cabinets. And you can also try several speakers much more easily - and speakers change your tone a lot.
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As for the Rivera Jazz Suprema in any form(either the standard 1x12 or the special Guitarsnjazz only 1x15) I am not sure I like the sound based on the clips I have heard. Its not bad don't get me wrong but I am not sure I like it enough for $1,500. It has El84s vs the 6L6 or 6V6s of the fender stuff. I might see if there are any on ebay but I doubt there will be a whole lot to pick from. Much more rare than the mainstream Fender and even older Ampeg stuff.
I am not totally sold on the PRIIs. I just like certain things about that model. Have to see where time leads me I guess. I just know that I really liked the Princeton Reverb I payed through this Summer.
'Mike
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that is a very good point. A good head and variable cabinets is a good idea-The Super Reverb blackface head don't seem to sell around here. What about the Fender SuperSonic? It comes as 22, 60 and 100 Watts and is also sold just as a head. Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
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Hi Mike, Originally Posted by Jazzman301
I understand your delema in terms of sound. I am one of the earliest customers of Lou's at guitars and jazz. I bought the 11th Palen made (George Benson has number 10) And I have bought several guitars from him since. I have to agree with you Lou is a great guy and more than a pleasure to deal with. Like you and most archtop fans, I suspect it's awful hard to find local places that deal with Jazz guitars and amps that go with them, so trying out stuff is at times out of the question. At this point in my life I am largely a home player and never found the right amp that would make me want to use one regularly. I own an old Polytone have owned a twin, Music Man all nice but never that special tone that I looked for. Lou has the Jazz suprema (Riveira design) which he offered me at cost at conception and even though it sounded close to what I looked for Just not close enough to make me want to own it. (too Fenderish!) I heard a clip for Headstrong Lil King and was pretty sold that was the sound I was looking for. Lots of cash though! I began to look in to alternatives. Make a long story short it was the Princeton sound that did it for me. I ended up buying a Keedy Relativity Reverb which is a Princeton that develops 18 watts and couldn't be happier. It blows the twin away and has a dimension that the Polytone just can't reproduce. Bought it used on E-Bay on a large leap of faith. It probably wouldn't keep up with a drummer without being miked, but might do for what your doing. If you can get away with 18 watts save your money and go with a Princeton clone with a 12" speaker. It will last forever and you'll have no reason to ever want another amp in terms of sound.
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Then go for a Princeton Reverb not a PRII. Originally Posted by Jazzman301
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I will get mine here. Originally Posted by FrankLearns
Amp-Kit Blackface Super Reverb AB763 HEAD-Version - AMP-Kit Blackface
When I tried the super-sonic it didn't had the sound I wanted and did a lot of things I didn't want - OD, Twin and Bassman etc... And they are very expensive!
I hope a 40w Blackface will get me what I want...
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