G7#5#9

[.Brandon]

I have "The Real Book" sixth Edition and in it, Blue Bossa has the G7#5#9 chord. I was wondering if someone could help me with it, as I can't quite figure out how to play it. I am having trouble with every aspect of the chord. Thanks for the help.

[docbop]

Just drop the +9 and play a G7+5 and be done with it. Remember in general anything above the 7th can be treated as optional. Since the +5 is part of the basic triad you need to either include the +5 or play a chord without a 5th.

It's all about learning to edit chords which when in a reading situation you need to do especially at fast tempos.

[.Brandon]

Thank you very much, docbop that one was confusing me for some time!

[Dazz]

Originally Posted by .Brandon

I have "The Real Book" sixth Edition and in it, Blue Bossa has the G7#5#9 chord. I was wondering if someone could help me with it, as I can't quite figure out how to play it. I am having trouble with every aspect of the chord. Thanks for the help.

On a guitar, you don't have to voice both the #5 and#9
Depending on where you are playing it on the finger board, either of the following work ok:

3x344x (has the sharp 5 and is very easyto grab)
3x3444 (if you want both #5 and #9 but the chord above may sound better comping)
or
x 10 9 10 11 x has the sharp 9 and again, you can also finger
x 10 9 10 11 11 if you want both alterations but again, the chord above is probably enough

Des

[kenbennett]

3x3444 (if you want both #5 and #9 ...)

That last 4 (Ab on the first string) is actually a b9.

For a #9 play 3x3446

[Dazz]

Originally Posted by kenbennett

3x3444 (if you want both #5 and #9 ...)

That last 4 (Ab on the first string) is actually a b9.

For a #9 play 3x3446

oops; I was wrong; you are right there;
I always just play that without the 9th

[.Brandon]

Thanks for all your help everyone!

[Aristotle]

B-F-Bb-Eb
?

[Stackabones]

I don't have my RB in front of me, but check the melody -- for it often has the alt notes in it, which can free you up to play simpler version of the chord. So for G7#5#9, check for D# (or Eb) or A# (or Bb) in the melody during that measure. Bone up on your shell chords that don't have the 5th and you'll be covered for so many situations.

[cosmic gumbo]

Everyone should know some voicings for a 7#5#9 chord under their fingers. It has a pretty definitive sound to it.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

Everyone should know some voicings for a 7#5#9 chord under their fingers. It has a pretty definitive sound to it.

I love the sound of it!

[M-ster]

Originally Posted by kenbennett

For a #9 play 3x3446

This one. You can leave off the root (the low G), of course.

Here's another: x-10-9-10-11-11 (Again, you can leave off the root.)

Here's another: x-10-9-8-6-6

Oh, and Aristotle's suggestion: x-2-3-3-4-x

You can also make that last one either x-2-3-3-4-3 (<-upper structure triad version) or x-2-3-3-4-4 (<- this one has both #9 and b9).

Here's another: x-8-9-8-11-x

Etc., etc. No need to leave out the colorful notes!

[Larry Feldman]

The simplest fingering I've found is simply x-x-3-4-4-6. Rootless voicings help when trying to play chords like this. Larry

[kenbennett]

Originally Posted by Aristotle

B-F-Bb-Eb
?

I like this. Funny I don't remember ever grabbing it.

(This related shape, B-F-Bb-D, I use all the time for 7#9.)

Back to the other other one. Last night I was working on Stella solo, playing the melody with chords, hitting most of the bass notes, and looking for fills. In one place it has the melody on a high Eb, the #5 of a G7#9 chord. And it holds this note for a whole measure, so I try playing off this B-F-Bb-Eb shape for a fill.

I hit the chord with the melody note: x-10-9-10-11-11

Then I hit this: x-8-9-9-11-x (G13#9)

And slid down to this: x-7-8-8-9-x (the same shape as the B-F-Bb-D, only now it's E-Bb-Eb-Ab, a G13#5b9).

Then I hit that same shape on the 3rd fret and slid down a half-step into the B-F-Bb-Eb, which is Aristotle's suggestion for the G7#5#9.


The last 4 chords are made with 1st finger on the A string, 2nd finger barring the D and G strings, 4th finger on the 4 string.

The chords are: G7#5#9, G13#9, G13#5b9, Ab7#5#9, G7#5#9

Only the first chord has a root. So that's a cool little G7alt chord riff.

[markf]

Originally Posted by Larry Feldman

The simplest fingering I've found is simply x-x-3-4-4-6. Rootless voicings help when trying to play chords like this. Larry

or you could hit the root, let it go, and play the chord

[markf]

not unusual for the fakebooks I have looked through to have bad sounding chords seems sometimes they just throw in something without thinking about it much.

[bako]

Ken,

Nice sequence. It's always helpful to hear a voicing in context.
I have a question about the 3rd chord (E Bb Eb Ab) that you are calling G13#5b9.

In relation to G:

E---13
Bb--#9
Eb/D#--#5
Ab------b9

The lower tritone pulls my ears to hear it more in relation to C or Gb than G.

In relation to C:

E---3
Bb--b7
D#--#9
Ab---b13

C7#9b13

[Reg]

YouTube Video

Here's a video I made a while ago for someone, can't remember where from, for some ideas.
All the above examples were great voicings... I dig them all, some might be difficult in context. What I would add is be able to play or voice any note of what ever scale/mode your pulling from when comping or soloing through those chords. One small detail... the spelling of the chord is incorrect in respect to most of the choices to pull from. The melody and typical use of this chord pattern usually implies Altered II V of target Cmin. which in this tune is Imin and clearly from melody is implying Nat. Min. or aeolian. The standard choice is to call the G7 chord Altered, meaning pulled from; Altered implies 7th degree of Melodic Min.
1, b9, #9, 3, b5 (#11), b13, b7
G, Ab, A#,B, Db (C#), Eb, F
The Eb is b13, not #5.
There are other sources... most have Natural 5 and the Eb is still spelled b13.
The other thing I noticed in 6th ed. The use of Bb7 in bar 4 is very out of character for this tune. If you would like a Video of just Altered II Vs going to Minor or Maj. I could make a sample. Best Reg

[Aristotle]

Reg TV. Where's the popcorn?

[M-ster]

Originally Posted by Reg

1, b9, #9, 3, b5 (#11), b13, b7
G, Ab, A#,B, Db (C#), Eb, F
The Eb is b13, not #5.

+1. I didn't go into it again, but we had this discussion in another thread.

Very, very often chord symbols inappropriately indicate augmented 7th chords when they technically/theoretically should be dom 7th w/b13.

[kenbennett]

Originally Posted by bako

Ken,

Nice sequence. It's always helpful to hear a voicing in context.
I have a question about the 3rd chord (E Bb Eb Ab) that you are calling G13#5b9.

In relation to G:

E---13
Bb--#9
Eb/D#--#5
Ab------b9

The lower tritone pulls my ears to hear it more in relation to C or Gb than G.

In relation to C:

E---3
Bb--b7
D#--#9
Ab---b13

C7#9b13

Right. That's more what the chord really is. And in a measure of G that's OK with me for a quick change.

[Jim Soloway]

A #5#9 is actually a really handy chord. Used as a V, it can move to the bII (the tritone of the V) with very little hand movement which leads naturally to the I. Here's a couple of quick examples that I just knocked off to show what I'm talking about.

YouTube Video

[GuyB]

For the ease of playing, mainly when the tempo is fast, I follow the Dm7b5 (x5656x) by a G7b9 (xx5464) or a G7#5b9 no root (xx3444).

[Reg]

So if I'm from the dark side, Altered... lots of flat chord tones, tensions, extensions or what ever we call the pitches... what do we call the cats who play from Augmented, use of #'s...
Does any one still use V chord from HM with added #9. Sort of a blend of standard 5th degree of HM or Phrygian Dominant and regular Phrygian;
G, Ab, A#, B, C, D, Eb, F 1,b9,#9, 3, 11, 5, b13, b7
I just made a quick Video for Spain for some comping ideas for a different thread... anyway haven't played tune in at least 20 years, and reminded me of old playing habits...before I went over to the dark side....Best Reg

[RunningBeagle]

Originally Posted by M-ster

Here's another: x-10-9-10-11-11 (Again, you can leave off the root.)

...

Oh, and Aristotle's suggestion: x-2-3-3-4-x

...

Here's another: x-8-9-8-11-x

These are 2 inversions (if you leave off the bass in the first) of Bmaj7b5 drop 2 voicings. If you work through the inversions you get a couple more:

x-6-8-4-6-x (1st inversion)

x-x-8-8-6-7 (3rd inversion - sounds shitty)

These also work (beautifully) as F-7b5 substitutions (11 for 3).

And F-7b5 works great back as a substitution for G7b9b13.

They're all related, and they take the same parent melodic minor scale (Ab).

[Drumbler]

Here's the Mickey Baker version:




||---|---|---|---|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|-2-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|-2-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-x-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-x-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

[RunningBeagle]

Originally Posted by Drumbler

Here's the Mickey Baker version:




||---|---|---|---|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|-2-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|-2-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-x-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-x-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

which equals:

Originally Posted by M-ster

Here's another: x-8-9-8-11-x

[the_emptier]

when in doubt drop extensions such as the #9 and leave it as an aug. #5#9 are pretty cumbersome on the guitar. piano is a different story of course

[cosmic gumbo]

Originally Posted by the_emptier

#5#9 are pretty cumbersome on the guitar.

? Compared to what?

[the_emptier]

piano ?