Functional Tonal vs Modal Harmony and Berklee greek names

[djg]

In the words of AA: Dunning-Kruger valley.

oh, the irony

[rodolfoguitarra]

Now my question would be? Why are you so worried about that question? In what degree this nomenclature disturbs your playing? I really want to help you.

Let me be clear: this does not cause me any problems (it did years ago). When it comes to improvising I can perfectly think of modes if I want, or chord tones + chormatic embellishment, generalization of the home key, etc. No problem at all. My main question was if you have seen any confusion caused by this modal nomeclature. At least I still found many people who have had this problem (students and friends). In other words, the debate was whether it was worth continuing to use this modal nomeclature with new aspirants to learn jazz.

[rodolfoguitarra]

As far as I can remember the iii9 (ii related to the V/ii if you like) I only saw only one time. Flor de Lis by Djavan.

Djavan - Flor de lis Sheet music for Flute piccolo (Solo) | Musescore.com

3rd bar of part ´´C´´

[djg]

As far as I can remember the iii9 (ii related to the V/ii if you like) I only saw only one time. Flor de Lis by Djavan.

well, there is this montgomery guy

[ragman1]

As far as I can remember the iii9 (ii related to the V/ii if you like) I only saw only one time. Flor de Lis by Djavan.

Djavan - Flor de lis Sheet music for Flute piccolo (Solo) | Musescore.com

3rd bar of part ´´C´´

Of course, then it's the ii of A7. This has nothing to do with Em as the iii of C major!

[JimmyDunlop]

I wouldn't call it Phrygian ... but yes.

Playing it like a iii chord.

If I were going to play a iii VI like a ii-V, then it would be a ii-V of the ii ... which is to say it would be more like a minor ii-V than a major ii-V. b6 over the iii chord and b9 and b13 over the VI.

And for what it's worth, I didn't say no one ever plays a different m7 chord like it were a ii chord ... but it's certainly not "the custom."

Stylistically, it's very hard bop, I think.

As far as I can remember the iii9 (ii related to the V/ii if you like) I only saw only one time. Flor de Lis by Djavan.

Djavan - Flor de lis Sheet music for Flute piccolo (Solo) | Musescore.com

3rd bar of part ´´C´´

I think you people focus too much on a technical analyse of harmonies, when the most important things specially to iprovise is the melodic approach. the quality of the music will depend on this and not in analysing the chords. thats why i see many guys here focusing on explaining chords changes and formulas, and their melodic skillls are very limited or doesnt exist at all. The problem is that is hard to train, basically is about "or you have it or not". Hard to teach

[pamosmusic]

I think you people focus too much on a technical analyse of harmonies, when the most important things specially to iprovise is the melodic approach. the quality of the music will depend on this and not in analysing the chords. thats why i see many guys here focusing on explaining chords changes and formulas, and their melodic skillls are very limited or doesnt exist at all. The problem is that is hard to train, basically is about "or you have it or not". Hard to teach

Well if melodic skills are just about “having it or not” then I suppose there’s little point in focusing on them.

Alas. It’ll have to be all theory for me from now on.

(as an aside … it’s always nice to see another fake guru in the mix. Welcome.)

[djg]

I think you people focus too much on a technical analyse of harmonies, when the most important things specially to iprovise is the melodic approach. the quality of the music will depend on this and not in analysing the chords. thats why i see many guys here focusing on explaining chords changes and formulas, and their melodic skillls are very limited or doesnt exist at all. The problem is that is hard to train, basically is about "or you have it or not". Hard to teach

the biggest problem is that listening to the actual music seems to have gone out of style. people just parrot what they read in other threads and the whole thing becomes a huge circle jerk.

[Christian Miller]

What do you mean ‘you people?’ Haha


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[Christian Miller]

the biggest problem is that listening to the actual music seems to have gone out of style. people just parrot what they read in other threads and the whole thing becomes a huge circle jerk.

Well the music is full of wrong notes. That’s why we needed Mark Levine to tidy it up ;-)


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[JimmyDunlop]

Well if melodic skills are just about “having it or not” then I suppose there’s little point in focusing on them.

Alas. It’ll have to be all theory for me from now on.

(as an aside … it’s always nice to see another fake guru in the mix. Welcome.)

not a fake guru here, sorry. I know why I am saying what I wrote. most important thing is the melodic approach. this is where I focus always

[pamosmusic]

the biggest problem is that listening to the actual music seems to have gone out of style. people just parrot what they read in other threads and the whole thing becomes a huge circle jerk.

Wait.

What music?

[djg]

Well the music is full of wrong notes. That’s why we needed Mark Levine to tidy it up ;-)

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[JimmyDunlop]

What do you mean ‘you people?’ Haha


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you for example

[pamosmusic]

not a fake guru here, sorry. I know why I am saying what I wrote. most important thing is the melodic approach. this is where I focus always

Oddly enough I’ve said something similar on other threads. But here’s a weird thing.

Harmony can inform one’s melodic choices.

[Christian Miller]

you for example

I’m quoting Tropic Thunder


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[Christian Miller]

you for example

I’m quoting Tropic Thunder. If you haven’t seen, I would suggest that to be a much better use of your time than the current endeavour whatever it is.


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[JimmyDunlop]

Christian What I mean is that I never have seen you talking about melodies. but only about chord theory which is sterile most of the time

[frabarmus]

What do you mean ‘you people?’ Haha


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Us folks

[Christian Miller]

Christian What I mean is that I never have seen you talking about melodies. but only about chord theory which is sterile most of the time

Chords? How dare you! How DARE YOU!!

That’s a foul slander that is. I don’t do ‘chords.’


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[pamosmusic]

Christian What I mean is that I never have seen you talking about melodies. but only about chord theory which is sterile most of the time

Um … we’re talking about Christian the “modern harmony is fake let’s all do partimento” guy, right?

[djg]

notes dont matter. jazz is just an illusion anyway. want proof? click on the first vid, and at the count of *one* click on the second one. enjoy.

[Christian Miller]

Um … we’re talking about Christian the “modern harmony is fake let’s all do partimento” guy, right?

I will resolve this insult in a period appropriate manner. Fetch me an antediluvian firearm forthwith!


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[Christian Miller]

Or a bendy sword


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[JimmyDunlop]

Oddly enough I’ve said something similar on other threads. But here’s a weird thing.

Harmony can inform one’s melodic choices.

when you improvise over a given harmony you have to create melodies over it. the quality of the music is in the melodic approach that obviously involve harmony concepts.
but is hard to teach or train, how to make good melodies. thats why most of the people struggle when making music. I never would say to a guy, hey you want to make something good, study the chords of this song,,,i think is sterile, thats why im not a fake guru, I know that harldy wont work.
I always focus in the melodies when I make music. That works for me