-
This won’t affect Americans but the bloody UK note duration names - semibreve, minim, crotchet, quaver, all the way down to hemidemisemiquaver. This is of course, extremely dumb.
I teach the American (which I think was originally the German system?) to all non classical students as much of the material on the market is American anyway.
plus the system teaches fractions which is good for National Curriculum learning objectives.
-
09-15-2023 02:29 AM
-
It's Pauln, of course he did.
Originally Posted by Christian Miller
-
”min #9s” and all … Originally Posted by Christian Miller
-
Depending on the student I teach intervals that way too. As opposed to perfect major minor diminished augmented. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
If I think I’ve got a budding theory dork, I’ll do it properly. But if we’re just trying to get from Zero to What is a Triad then I’ll just do the flat this and sharp that. We can always go back and do the proper names if we need to.
-
Key signatures are a special kind of nonsense in contemporary music.
9th and 13th chords….awful symbology. Do you mean a triad + a 9th? A dom7 w/ the 9th added?
correct symbol is the quality of the chord with tensions in (*). C7sus4(#9,b13) or Cadd9 if triadic. Grade school Jazz band arrangements are some of the worst examples of this unfortunately, mixing up different forms of archaic symbology and the occasional written voicing that you’d need an 8 string guitar with 11 fingers to execute as written.
Hearing a #11 on the Ab7 in the last bar of the bridge of Stablemates sounds like nails on a chalkboard to me too…..
-
I don’t mind perfect fifth etc. that’s just correct. The perfect intervals are distinct from the imperfect consonances and the diatonic dissonances, which is important to know for classical theory of any type, for instance counterpoint (it comes from the Middle Ages iirc) Originally Posted by pamosmusic
The supertonic/submediant stuff? I don’t see the point in it. Maybe it’s just me.
-
The absolute worst of this is when classically Originally Posted by Chris236
Key signatures are a special kind of nonsense in contemporary music.
9th and 13th chords….awful symbology. Do you mean a triad + a 9th? A dom7 w/ the 9th added?
correct symbol is the quality of the chord with tensions in (*). C7sus4(#9,b13) or Cadd9 if triadic. Grade school Jazz band arrangements are some of the worst examples of this unfortunately, mixing up different forms of archaic symbology and the occasional written voicing that you’d need an 8 string guitar with 11 fingers to execute as written.
Hearing a #11 on the Ab7 in the last bar of the bridge of Stablemates sounds like nails on a chalkboard to me too…..
trained musicians try to write chord symbols. You see some stuff in charts, you really do.
Really if the chord symbol system had been designed from the top down we’d call major 7th chords 7th chords and specify dominants - that way everything is diatonic major unless otherwise specified.
historically dominant chords were the first to be extended, so it was originally only necessary to specify extensions for dominant chords. (I still question whether it is necessary to reflect melodic choices in the chord symbols - that’s a question of musical approach.)
Hence they became the default. Major and minor 6’s sometimes for tonics. Then post war jazzers started adding all kinds of shit to chords and the system expanded in an ad hoc way to accommodate that - hence highly non standard chords in old big band parts and so on. Berklee quite sensibly tried to use it’s considerable influence to standardise the style and I see no value in not doing it their way…
But it is kind of a mess. But I respect that about chord symbols. The represent a living musical practice and history of that practice, rather than something invented out of whole cloth. I don’t respect neatness as much as I respect history.
what I dislike about a lot of terminology in jazz is that a lot of it is both newly minted and also completely inconsistent and ill thought through. Compare it to Barry Harris who was very consistent and thoughtful about terms.
Still we are stuck with it… :-)
-
Yep. So that’s for my classical kids doing counterpoint. There’s also no harm in going back to it. If they’re used to figuring out if the interval as been lowered or raised, then you can just apply a name for it. Sometimes it even helps … kids get bogged down quick sometimes in perfect or major or distinctions but once they can see that they’re building chords and things they’ll actually play, they have a little more patience for the distinctions. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
(I should clarify … this was just a connection to your thing. Not me saying I have any issue with the interval terminology.)
-
Man this is real talk. I used to get pulled in sometimes to play with this vocal jazz group at my college. The voice arm of stuff was very very classical, so lots of beautiful singers doing good arrangements. But they’d have soloists sometimes and I’d accompany the soloists and they’d have their own arrangements … man oh man some of those chord symbols. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
The upside is that they never noticed when I just played shells.
I just remember looking at some of those charts and being like … man let me do your ear a favor and absolutely not play that “11th chord” in that big ii-V.
-
Music naming and food naming, two things the Americans got right with their version of English. Might be it, but hey... Originally Posted by Christian Miller
-
Oh much worse than that, I used a spreadsheet to generate the primary chord forms, their permutations of extensions and alterations, concatenated the column values of those note names to form the parenthetical chord note name sets, then ran those sets through an online chord naming application. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
It's just a "dictionary of the root C", roughly ordered by number of notes in the chord (extensions), then by the complexity (alterations), in general.
About half of them (about 50) have six or seven notes so they make a transition into scales... I know you are interested on scale vs chord names...
-
Unfortunately the spreadsheets don't really know much about enharmonic equivalents. Originally Posted by pauln
Oh much worse than that, I used a spreadsheet to generate the primary chord forms, their permutations of extensions and alterations, concatenated the column values of those note names to form the parenthetical chord note name sets, then ran those sets through an online chord naming application.
It's just a "dictionary of the root C", roughly ordered by number of notes in the chord (extensions), then by the complexity (alterations), in general.
About half of them (about 50) have six or seven notes so they make a transition into scales... I know you are interested on scale vs chord names...
-
I enjoy scallions as a name for spring onions. It strikes me as piratical. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Harrr! Fine Scallions me hearties!
Not sold on Eggplant or Cilantro…
-
When considering which letter of the alphabet might be a pirate's favorite, your first thought might be that it's the arrrr. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
But actually it's the C.
-
I like a good quilt as much as the next guy, but might be a bit more pragmatic. I don’t have much inclination to accept tradition for tradition sake, or pedagogical dogma from any person or institution for that matter. It’s has to ‘work’ for me or it’s out! Originally Posted by Christian Miller
-
Scallions is a quality word. I think the Brits more miss the mark on their own cuisine. It's like "You feel ok love? You've barely touched your blood squidge and cockenballs." Originally Posted by Christian Miller
-
Not everybody here calls 'em scallions ... Originally Posted by Christian Miller
What do you call the vegetable OG Hip Hopper's use in stir fries? Rapscallions.
-
I thought scallions was more British English and Green Onions was American?
Hmmm...now how to un-derail this thread and get it back to theory vs. ear?
Maybe that connection between two cultures divided by a common language is a pretty good metaphor.
-
I think scallion vs green onions is regional in the US. In the NE, everybody says "scallion"; I've always thought of "green onions" as Southern. In French, its "oignon verts" (literally green onion). Given the influence of French on Southern cooking, I would not be surprised if that's how we got "green onions" in the US (though the fact that they are green and onions might suffice). IME, Brits say either spring onions or (green) shallots (at least on cooking shows). Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Why on god's green-onion earth would we want to do that? Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Only a Brit would be persnickety enough to note that this is not a metaphor. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Last edited by John A.; 09-15-2023 at 12:50 PM.
-
Which literary device is it? I'm American, I failed English.
-
It's mordancy. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
-
Well that's harsh. Originally Posted by Ukena
-
I'm American, too, so by definition incompetent at English, but I'd call it irony [using contradiction or unexpected juxtaposition for (often humorous) effect]; not sure I'd go so far as to call it mordancy. My saying that only a Brit would point this out was also intended as irony. A metaphor is a form of symbolism or analogy where one thing is called another [such calling someone a couch potato or calling practicing going out to the wood shed]. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
-
An Irish friend told me his family said Scallions Originally Posted by John A.
-
Mordancy: (especially of humor) having or showing a sharp or critical quality.
I wouldn't say that the phrase "two cultures divided by a common language" is an example of irony, which is often "using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous effect" since it is saying exactly what it means. Although "unexpected juxtaposition" does fit...
The phrase, which is often attributed to GB Shaw ("Two nations separated by a common language"), seems to be a poke at Americans' use of the language.
Reply With Quote
Has anyone tried the JHS Clover preamp pedal?
Yesterday, 05:41 PM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos