Cm7 or cm7 b5 ?

[Jonah]

It’s important to bear in mind Schoenberg was self taught. He had his own way of looking at things.

It's interesting how influential Schoenberg's fucntional theory became in the States (especially in non-classical world...)

I never heard it mentioned in Europe and it seems nobody really uses it for learning - except modern jazz players who seem took through States again...

[christianm77]

It's interesting how influential Schoenberg's fucntional theory became in the States (especially in non-classical world...)

I never heard it mentioned in Europe and it seems nobody really uses it for learning - except modern jazz players who seem took through States again...

I don't really feel qualified to comment. I didn't study classical harmony formally. I read Harmonielehre about 20 years ago alongside a bunch of other theory texts. I think some of Schoenberg's concepts have probably stayed with me. I got a lot out of Fundamentals of Musical Composition.

I also understand Schenker is a bigger deal in the US than he is in Europe?

[geoffF]

Thanks everybody..
now I have to learn all that stuff
geoffF

[WILSON 1]

Looks like a standard "back door" turn to me.

[ragman1]

Thanks everybody..
now I have to learn all that stuff
geoffF

Well, you don't really, you just have to understand what's going on when you see it. When I hear a beep in the car it means the door's not shut properly. I don't have to be a qualified motor mechanic or an automotive electronic wiring expert to know what it means.

Otoh, if it interests you, then... :-)

[christianm77]

Thanks everybody..
now I have to learn all that stuff
geoffF

Oh god please don’t.

[Reg]

The tune's Form is A A B A...right

The A's are in F maj.
The B section goes to Dbmaj

The use of relative and parallel harmonic relationships.... is very common practice composition technique for the "B" sections of common practice tunes. It is also very common practice to have that "B" section have a Sub Dominant relationship with the Key of Tune.

The tune is in key of "F"maj.

The Relative Minor is "D" min.....D-7 E-7b5 Fma7 G-7 A-7 Bbma7 C7

The parallel Minor is "F" minor....F-7 G-7b5 Abma7 Bb-7 C-7 (Dbma7) Eb7

Going to Dbmaj for the "B" section... is example of that common practice. It is also common practice for that "B" section to use Major Functional chord movement guidelines ... as the tune does, and for the last bar or few bars of that "B" section to use dominant functional chords from both sections to somewhat camouflage the harmonic transition back to the original Key of the "A" section of the tune... the last "A" section... which the Tune does.

You generally start with the analysis of the complete tune and Form of the tune to have a Reference for labeling the details.

The tune is very standard and used standard Maj/min functional harmonic composition techniques.

When we as jazz players and composers... play or arrange the tune..... we employ jazz harmonic common practice techniques, which results in many different versions of the Tune.

Part of being a jazz player is to be able to hear and be aware that many of those common practice jazz harmonic techniques, like relative and parallel harmonic relationships.... but expanded through the use of Modal concepts etc... are going on all the time.