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Hi guys,
How are you?
I was wondering the theory behind the Bmajor chord where it came from?
Cm /--- 8x ----\
Intro: | Cm | Eb |
| i | III |
/---------- 2x --------\
Verse | Cm | Ebm | Ab | - |
| i | iii | VI | - |
Chorus | Fm | Ab | Cm | Eb/Bb |
| v | VI | i | III |
| Fm | Ab | Cm | B |
| v | VI | i | #VII|
#VII would be the best analysis, which mode, scale it came from?
How a composer would think of using a chord like that after the tonic?
Would considered a modulation?
What would be your interpretation of the Bmajor chord on the chorus over a Eb melody, after Cminor chord(i).
Thanks.
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01-04-2018 06:04 PM
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What tune is that ?
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A melody would likely clarify some things but some thoughts based on the chords as presented:
Key of Cm
CDEbFGAbBb natural minor
There are 2 chords that expand the note collection beyond the Cm scale.
Ebm - adds Gb. (Eb and Bb are common tones)
B - adds F# and B, (D#/Eb is a common tone)
These 2 minor scales contain both Ebm and B chords.
EbFGbAbBbCbDb natural minor (4 common tones)
EbFGbAbBbCbD harmonic minor (5 common tones)
Ebm is the parallel minor of Eb major which is the relative major of Cm.
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Bako I like your explanation, thanks.
I friend told me the Bmaj comes from C diminished scale but your explanation is more on point since the song does not have jazzy , ext chords.
This is the track:
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Tune is in Cm, which is relative of Eb. V of Eb is Bb, V of Bb is F and tritone of F is B., which is #V of Eb,.
It is not uncommon move in any genre to go from #V to V to ...
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Cool explanation, but doesn't explain the flavour/type of the chord, maj, min, dim, b5, scale, etc...
Originally Posted by Vladan
Bmajor happens on Ebm scale...
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Why should it have any great theoretical explanation? Maybe they just wanted it to sound that way. Seriously.
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Despite the word "Mode" in the band name, I'm guessing Dave and Martin chose the B chord for the somewhat obscure but important rule.
It fit the melody and it sounded good.
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Are you suggesting we should prioritize sounding good over elegant mathematics?
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Whatever. Originally Posted by bossa
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I thought the question was about why that chord sounded good in that place? Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Why do we assume the chords came first?
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What's more I'm happy to bet I've heard that sound many times before. Soul or R&B come to mind and/or more ordinary pop, I'm not sure, can't place it now. Originally Posted by bako
I'm assuming your choice of script indicates a certain tongue-in-cheek...
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Quite. The note they're singing is an Eb, very firmly in key. I suppose they could have used Cm, Eb, Ab, etc, but none sounds quite as good as B! Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I think it's what they call 'cool' :-)
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The note they're singing is a D#, silly
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Absolutely, or rather Cb major. Originally Posted by bossa
I suppose one could plead modal interchange because they've used an Ebm chord in the song and Eb major would be the chord in Cm. So there is definitely a modal connection.
But it still sounds hot when it happens
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Me silly, you not wrong Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
The note they're singing is a D#, silly
(edit)
Actually, there is quite an interesting audio thing here. Because the B comes in you'd swear the voices/tune had gone down a notch, whereas they haven't, it's just another Eb. But the B makes it sound different - like it was a D# (it's not meant to be funny!).
Maybe it's akin to how perception of a color changes depending on what's surrounding it.Last edited by ragman1; 01-05-2018 at 11:54 PM.
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Why do you assume that I assume such thing? I do not. On the contrary. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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And what is that makes for B Major (NO 7) chord to sound that way in that place? Originally Posted by ragman1
Read my first post in this thread to find out!
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I know the answer! Originally Posted by Vladan
Tune is in Cm, which is relative of Eb. V of Eb is Bb, V of Bb is F and tritone of F is B., which is #V of Eb,.
It is not uncommon move in any genre to go from #V to V to ...
I'm clever
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Cool, now people have what to quote when "authority backed up opinion" is needed.
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I didnt assume you did, I assume the OP did. Originally Posted by Vladan
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We discussed already somwhere...
In modern classical musicology there is even kind of conception called 'common 3rd chords relations'. These are major and minor chords (or even keys) that have the same tone as 3rd.
I am not sure if it's good explanation but it exists.
In clasical music it can be traced down to Romantic music occasionally.. but most often it happens in the first half of 20th century (Shostakovich and Prokoviev for example).
Personally... I hear this major chord as III of minor (even if this minor does not show up actually).
That is this B major is III of Ab minor.
Ab minor can be easily resolved to C minor.
Ab to G, B to C, Eb is common tone.
And I think it's kind of VI from harmonic minor. And here it works mor like all suspended dominant chord.
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You see... we make choices.. and even if unconciuosly that means that we feel some realations.Why should it have any great theoretical explanation? Maybe they just wanted it to sound that way. Seriously.
To say 'we like it' is just a statement that we feel these relations. And it's ok.
Theory is the way to explain these relations in conventional terms.
Some people are ok just with the fact they feel it.
Some want to explain it.
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I understand, a lot of people (I've met them) choose a chord or sound just because it sounds good. And I agree too, absolutely, that if it sounds good there is almost certainly bound to be a theoretical explanation for it. Originally Posted by Jonah
And you're right too that some are happy just to stay with the nice feeling whereas others want to know why it works. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, if nobody had ever analysed everything we wouldn't have music theory at all!
But my point before was that I doubt very much if Depeche Mode thought 'I think we'll use the III of Ab minor there'. I think they found a chord that felt good and a sound that had been used before in pop music. That's all really, nothing deep :-)
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