Mark Levine only plays 4 scales

[christianm77]

I know you be teasing..........

A scale is just a collection of intervals, neither good or evil.
When we change just one note in a 7 note scale, a surprising amount of new material comes forth.

Among other things, harmonic major is a source for:

a IV chord mMa7 (12b3#4567)
III Alt chord with natural 5th (1b2b3b45b6b7)
V an alternative 13b9 chord (1b23456b7)

Chromatic scale is the only scale we need, but there is too much going on so we go smaller, plus historically there is much musical precedent (or is that president) centered around various 7 note collections.

7 and 8 note scales a bit easier to grasp the content and various viewpoints of a tonal center
can be seen via this note collection size.

Going smaller gives us pentatonics and hexatonics.

Arpeggios of primary 7th chords and extensions is an attempt to aim more directly for the essence of a sound.

Jordan's triad + 1 also allow him to put under a microscope various interval combinations,
form an opinion about each one for future reference to guide his improvisational choices.

One could break it down further and deal with dyads or even just one note (monads).

There is something that can be learned from each vantage point, from small note collections or larger ones.

Interestingly, even though this is not how he conceives it and generates it, the Barry Harris 8 note scale:

12345b6678 can also be understood as a hybrid of a major scale and a harmonic major scale.

Thing is if were to transcribe my lines, and that was your theoretical approach, you would say I play Harmonic Major literally all the time.

I just don't think of it that way. I think - take this and b6, or whatever. Run a V7b9 into I, that type of thing.

I can't hear it as an actual scale. I would tend to think of most HMaj stuff as two scales running into each other. You might say that's more complicated, and maybe you are right, but that's the way I can hear it.

The harmonies it produces? Yes - I use them all the time.

The Barry Harris - major 6th dim? Maybe more so. Truth is I don't use those scales much either.

[MarkRhodes]

Joe Pass "major, minor, dominant"

Wasn't he saying those are the only three types of chords (or sounds)? (Diminished and augmented chords are functioning as either major, minor, or dominant, depending.)

[joaopaz]

Oh yeah. Totally. And Irish and English music was obviously a big influence on American music.

But that stuff isn't 'Celtic'.

Scarborough is definitely in England, and therefore NOT Celtic haha. Martin Carthy, the guy that Paul Simon pirated his arrangement from is from Hertfordshire near London. So not terribly Celtic, although going from his name Irish or Scottish ancestry? Anyway...

While there are regional differences, the music of the UK and Ireland is actually pretty continuous stylistically in terms of things like harmony etc, it's just in England historically it's been quite marginalised.... Scottish and Irish people have a greater ties to their folk tradition, again probably for historical reasons, so we think of it as 'celtic' for that reason.

My dad hails from Northumberland and is really into the music of piper Kathryn Tickell (who I've been lucky to play with, briefly on a course.) A lot of her music sounds Scottish to my ears, and of course, Lowland Scotland is primarily Saxon linguistically, like Northern England. The highlands are more what we might call Celtic, although modern scholars dislike the term AFAIK.

A more recent example might be 'Eleanor Rigby' - I don't think McCartney knew what a Dorian mode was, but he heard the sound, as you say from folk music.

Going back I played some lute stuff last summer, and some of the basses when realised give that kind of what I think of as 'Irish folk' harmony - Mixolydian, Dorian etc. This is 16th century material. In fact a lot of that repetoire is pretty modal. A lot of '70s editions removed some of the modal notes because they were thought to be mistakes lol!

There is a historical continuity there.

I know musicians who know a hell of a lot more about this stuff than I...

Hi Christian,

Great posts of yours, well informed - I appreciate the time you took to write them.
Sorry about the connection of Scarborough Fair to Celtic Music But that was just an example (a bad one) of the importance of modal music in several music traditions around the globe. Dorian is very much present in Celtic music though, again I must confess that the proper concept of "Celtic" eluded me.

..

About Gary Burton. You guys may find this interesting:

This is an excerpt - not the full video/lecture/text - from his Lectures at Coursera - I'm taking the liberty of quoting a part of it here for information purposes, and since the course was open to everyone and the materials were made available for download:

As I mentioned before, there are ten scales that are the most commonly used.
And they're the ones that you really have to be ready to play, and have instant recall of, and be comfortable on.
So if you think about it, there are ten common scales, and there are 12 different key signatures. So, that's a total of 120.
Now that sounds like a lot, but in fact many of these scales are closely related, so it's really not like learning 120 totally separate things.
So it goes quicker then you think.
There's sort of two ways to approach it. One way is to be methodical about it, and say, well, I have 120 scales, so if I work on two scales a day in 60 days, I'll have gone through all of them.
I don't know anyone who's done it that way, to be honest, but it's certainly logical.
Almost everybody learns them another way. That is, every time they learn a new song, they look through the tune and see what chords, what chord scales are called for, and if there's going to be some new ones, in almost every new song you learn at first.
And so, you add a few more each time you learn a new song.
And eventually, you've pretty much covered all of them just by learning 25, 30, 40 songs over the next few months, or however long it takes you.
So, a combination of intentionally learning them and learning them with each new song.
What you shouldn't do, is try to guess, or try to fake it.
when you come to a chord symbol in a song, and you're not sure, you don't get an instant recall of what scale goes with it, remember that.
And know that you have to learn it, and have to practice it, and add it to your memory.

His Jazz Improvisation Course > Jazz Improvisation - Berklee | Coursera
This is a diagram a student posted openly on Facebook, one he did following Gary Burton's lecture > Mosh Fets - OK - Version 3. Thanks for your help with... | Facebook
And this is a long video available on YT where I believe he addresses the subject and, from what I could see (didn't watch the whole video) is very similar to his work at Coursera > Burton"s Ten Scales - Jazz Harmonica

[henryrobinett]

I have nothing to do with CST and Bezerklee. But I'm afraid as far as I'm concerned the MAJOR scale is the basis for my reference. The reference is 1,2,3,4,5,6,7. Every other derivation is an alteration of that basic frame work. It's easy for me to think regarding Tonic - Dominant, and their associated minors Harmonic/Melodic minors. FOR ME variations are variations of this scale and frame. Diminished, Whole Tone, Augmented, Various minors, Pentatonic and Blues and other synthetic and exotic scales. FOR ME they're colorizations of these Tonic-Dominant Major/Minor scales.

But although I ingested all the scales I play many years ago and no longer think about them, they revolve around chord tones in whatever way I want them to. So where Tim Miller and Holdsworth and guys are really into playing scales and modes and strange synthetic, altered ones and it sounds really cool, and I admire their playing, FOR ME it's too scale-like and modal. I'm no longer drawn to that style of playing.

[bako]

I think of scales as intervallic training wheels.

For example: b2/b9 in different intervallic contexts/modes

1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 --- m7b9/b13 or 7alt(nat5 and no 3rd)

1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7 --- m7b5/b9/b13 or 7thb9/#9/b5/b13(no 3rd)

1 b2 b3 4 5 6 b7 --- m13b9 or 13b9/#9(no 3rd)

1 b2 b3 b4 b5 b6 b7 --- 7thb9/#9/b5/b13

1 b2 b3 4 b5 6 b7 --- m13b5/b9 or 13thb9/#9/b5

1 b2 3 4 5 b6 b7 --- 7thb9/b13

1 b2 b3 b4 b5 b6 bb7 --- o7/b9/3/b13

1 b2 b3 b4 5 b6 b7 --- 7thb9/#9/b13/(nat 5)

1 b2 3 4 5 6 b7 --- 13thb9

1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 bb7 --- o7b9/11/b13

Safe to say, one could learn some stuff about how a b2/b9 sounds and functions in these different contexts,
step by step chipping away at that motherlode of intervallic content, the chromatic scale.

The goal can be just to learn to hear sounds and then access them quickly.
The study of note collections big and small, which includes scales is one possible path.

The goal for me is not to function like a human computer, executing prescribed chord scale
relationships at rapid tempos, minus sonic awareness and musical inspiration.

[joaopaz]

This picture shows the mental process to identify which scale - of "his" 10 - that he's going to use. Gary Burton will look at the chord for clues, then to the melody and if necessary to the melody on the nearby bars.
His claim is that you can do this almost instantly with some training, and then you have to be proficient in those 10 scales in all the 12 keys. That's 120 scales that you should master a few at a time as you grow your repertoire. He states that the goal is to have instant recall on these scales.

From this chart, imagine he sees a dominant chord in a chart; he will immediately look for b2 or #2s, either on the chord or on the melody; next he'll spot the b13 .. this will in the end lead him to use, the altered scale or the symmetrical diminished.

[christianm77]

I have nothing to do with CST and Bezerklee. But I'm afraid as far as I'm concerned the MAJOR scale is the basis for my reference. The reference is 1,2,3,4,5,6,7. Every other derivation is an alteration of that basic frame work. It's easy for me to think regarding Tonic - Dominant, and their associated minors Harmonic/Melodic minors. FOR ME variations are variations of this scale and frame. Diminished, Whole Tone, Augmented, Various minors, Pentatonic and Blues and other synthetic and exotic scales. FOR ME they're colorizations of these Tonic-Dominant Major/Minor scales.

But although I ingested all the scales I play many years ago and no longer think about them, they revolve around chord tones in whatever way I want them to. So where Tim Miller and Holdsworth and guys are really into playing scales and modes and strange synthetic, altered ones and it sounds really cool, and I admire their playing, FOR ME it's too scale-like and modal. I'm no longer drawn to that style of playing.

Bezerklee! Haha.

Sounds like my approach or way of thinking is similar to yours.

Berklee did not invent scales.... And not all scale use in jazz is automatically CST....

When I use CST at the moment, it's almost like I throw the CST switch on. Most of my playing doesn't use that concept. But I use scalar runs all the time.

[smokinguit]

Like someone mentioned above when I hear scales the first thought that comes to mind is major, minor, or dominant. Everything else to me is just a slight variation to those standard scale sound (the ones w/o any alteration). And yes, that includes the chromatic scale too. Of course all scales have their own character, but all fall into this general category to me.

[christianm77]

I dislike the use of Pro musician as a mark of ability... I am a professional, for example, because I earn my living in music, but the comparison between me and a musician like Gary Burton, is to me, is far more ridiculous than comparing myself to an able amateur.

And I know amateur players who can outplay many pros.

Labels like amateur and pro are complex, because they refer to a complex web of things - sacrifices made; opportunities taken; business acumen; an appetite for self-promotion; the ability to organise recording projects and tours; the temperament to put up with endless BS and work with it; the means and patience to get by on a relatively low income; living with the uncertainty of the profession and so on.

Oh yeah, and you have to be able to play. Not an issue, because talent is in no short supply.

It is possible to be a very talented, committed and able musican and have a stomach for none of these things. Elsewhere on the forum there was an important and interesting thread about great players who turned their back on professional music - just got sick of it - Tal Farlow springs to mind.

Anyway, definitely a digression. But I would say that pro players do not necessarily have 'everything internalised' they have the skills they need to play the gigs they play, and most of the players I know see things very much as a work in progress. I know I do.

In terms of famous musicians - early manifested high level ability is pretty important. But OTOH Pat Metheny doesn't have to do anything other than Pat Metheny. It's a different type of skill set to most working musicians, and some musicians working at a 'lower echelon' will be able to do things Metheny simply can't. It's like the difference between a Hollywood star and a character actor.

On top of that, he may not have to do it these days, Pat had to book the gigs and organise the tour back in the early days.... That's a whole set of skills that have nothing to do with music!

Anyway enough of the OT stuff. Back to scales. Scales yada yada yada whatever.

[Jonzo]

It is interesting that Jimmy approaches it that way, and the results you observed. Because, yeah, it's the "wrong" notes, used tastefully, that give so many great lines their character.

It's something that a lot of people learn from copying--"oh, she's playing that note"--but it can also be developed through experimentation.

[bobsguitars09]

Mark Levine tells me (off the record) that you really don't need a book (contrary to popular opinion from the folks making a living by selling such books to the masses). Levine says that he personally plays only 4 scales.
(Wikipedia is your friend, no book needed to know these 4 scales and there's no mystery there.) If you can't figure it out with the help of Wikipedia then jazz is probably not for you because you need to be a self starter sort of person to get jazz piano together.


THE 4 SCALES MARK LEVINE PLAYS:


Major
Melodic Minor
Whole Tone
Diminished


Music is easy, but knowing how to learn (remembering stuff) is a thing that alludes many folks.

Does he say why these scales?

[rintincop]

Because that's his way, those are his main everyday scales, and it is reflected in his books. Once in a while he will play an exotic Japanese scale ';cause Coltrane did once too... but when reading a chart... those 4 cover all chords in his mind.

Remember he is NOT a guitar player, thus he is usually playing chords with his left hand at the same time he is improving with the right hand. So maybe that is why you guys literally see it differently... Levine has trained himself to have chord association with instant recall regarding the modes of major, the modes of melodic minor, the diminished scale and whole tone scale.

[Robertkoa]

Or pentatonic scales? If they are just other scales with notes left out, I dibs the chromatic scale.

Actually any Major Scale or Mode is just 3 Pentatonic Scales with the Soul squeezed out of them (and the redundant notes removed).....haha.




Add one more Pentatonic - there's all 12 Tones.

[Robertkoa]

I had a jazz tutor once who also recommended practising just 4 scales:

Major
Harmonic minor
Melodic minor
Harmonic major (yup...)

I guess he put wholetone and diminished into a different class (symmetrical? non-tonal?). Or maybe because those two can be seen as merely artificial derivations from chord tones? Wait a minute, that's what harmonic minor is...

My personal collection is just three:

Major
Minor
Blues

Everything else is an alteration of either major or minor (usually temporarily); or (like dim and wholetone) is derived from chord embellishments.
Blues is a subtle, slippery beast all on its own, of course. King (or Queen) of all scales...?

Yes ...IMO the Pentatonics and Blues Scales sound least like scales when played Verbatim of all scales and when you convert from 7 note Modes to Pentatonics and start using Transpose Symbols - you get all the Diatonic Modes in Pentatonic Form and the outside Tones really quickly
#IV Pentatonic/ biii Pentatonic etc. cool playable (especially with Arps mixed in) relationships pop up AND unlike
Lydian Chromatic Concept- MORE than 8 people can fully understand it...ha.
Or is there 9 people now ?

So- yes! the Pentatonics are the now the King or Queen of all Scales as of Daylight Savings Time 2017.

No I don't play 'only Pentatonic' or even mostly scales but Pentas can sound good if you mix em up...

[christianm77]

I might add that if Mark Levine (if!) plays the four scales he thinks he does, then that is more than enough building blocks to play anything he comes across.

As I point out above, two or three scales are enough.

So - the point of this thread which is a good one IMO - is that it's possible to over estimate how many building blocks are required to put together music. Rarely is more information required by a student I teach - normally it's learning how to apply the information they already have.

[Robertkoa]

How many did he use here ?

Slonimsky would probably hear more scales..but I like the Integrated Approach ...meaning if it's a Mode...then Pentatonics could be seen as derivative and just because you add a chromatic tone or two
- no need to call it a whole other scale .

[christianm77]

Who cares, MF can swing.