Mark Levine only plays 4 scales

[rintincop]

Mark Levine tells me (off the record) that you really don't need a book (contrary to popular opinion from the folks making a living by selling such books to the masses). Levine says that he personally plays only 4 scales.
(Wikipedia is your friend, no book needed to know these 4 scales and there's no mystery there.) If you can't figure it out with the help of Wikipedia then jazz is probably not for you because you need to be a self starter sort of person to get jazz piano together.


THE 4 SCALES MARK LEVINE PLAYS:


Major
Melodic Minor
Whole Tone
Diminished


Music is easy, but knowing how to learn (remembering stuff) is a thing that alludes many folks.

[AlsoRan]

I believe it was forum member NSJ, who has really poured a lot of time into this craft in the last few years, who recommended learning a few things thoroughly instead of pieces of a bunch of different things.

Others have said the same through the years I have been on this forum.

I am starting to take this to heart.

[FuseHead]

I always just tried to hand my students the clue to any given competency. Some liked that style of instruction some didn't. Just seems to have so much more impact when people figure it out on they're own rather than being shown outright.

[henryrobinett]

I add harmonic minor. So I guess I play 5 scales.


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[Rob MacKillop]

Presumably he also plays arpeggios, and decorates them. Perhaps he also plays enclosures around the scale notes, chromatic passing notes, etc.

No Blues scale? I can't trust anyone who dismisses the Blues scale

[christianm77]

No harmonic minor, right Jon R? ;-)

[Jonah]

It depends...

I personally like to have complete understanding of musical devices I use... of course I understand that - for example - 7 diatinic scales can be considered as just a major scale...

But the way we treat these things is the way we play... if you think of D dorian as of a separate scale and if you think of it as of C major played from ii... it effects how you play, make phrasing, harmonic sccents etc.


The most problematic point with students is that when they recieve some advice about how simple it is they often think of it as of a kind of magic. Something like: Oh! I will just learn 4 scales and then play like Mike Levine!

I am sure that with Mark there's a huge background of how to apply these 4 scales in various situations with various harmonic context, how differently they may sound... and this knowledge is achieved through years of living in music.

And this is often what escapes students.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Presumably he also plays arpeggios, and decorates them. Perhaps he also plays enclosures around the scale notes, chromatic passing notes, etc.

No Blues scale? I can't trust anyone who dismisses the Blues scale

Or pentatonic scales? If they are just other scales with notes left out, I dibs the chromatic scale.

[Vladan]

The only scale is Major. All the rest are collections of pitches.

Now, you can treat any collection of pitches as a scale and get all the pretty results, or not so pretty.

[henryrobinett]

Of course then there are also the pentatonics and blues.

[henryrobinett]

You know, it's a little like saying "there are only five types of roads I use to drive: 2 lane, 4 lane, freeway, one way and alleys. Go!

Of course there are details. It's how you micro-manage the macro information. It's important to know the roads and how they fit onto a map, on paper and mentally. You have to be able to ingest the data or you can't really drive effectively, or play effectively.

[mr. beaumont]

I mean, if you really think about what he's saying, it makes sense.

But in the end, I think people have to find what makes it "click" for themselves on this stuff, not what someone else who's a fun name to drop says.

[henryrobinett]

I totally get what he's saying and agree. At a certain point, you have to simplify what seems unduly complex. I think F Dorian if I'm thinking F Dorian and don't think Eb major. But it's a knowledge and visual thing. In reality it's a version of the Eb major scale. I don't have to learn any new fingering. It just has a different application.

[jdaguitar2]

I love scales and enjoy the theory and application but I can also see his point. I think, for myself, that stepping out of the theory world when I'm playing leads to a more interesting improvisation experience. Singing my lines as I play has helped me achieve a more organic and natural way of improvising.


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[rintincop]

Pentatonics are subsets of major or minor scale ... Blues scales are embellished minor or major pentatonic utilizing the great African American passing tone (bent note) innovations. The two greatest innovations in theory offered by jazz is the blues and swing rhythm. Pretty much everything else in jazz has some precedent in theory ( Debussy, Stravinsky, Schoenberg, etc)

[PMB]

Presumably he also plays arpeggios, and decorates them. Perhaps he also plays enclosures around the scale notes, chromatic passing notes, etc.

No Blues scale? I can't trust anyone who dismisses the Blues scale

Funny you should mention that, Rob. Levine's chapter on the blues in The Jazz Theory Book was probably a corrective to leaving it out altogether in his earlier publication, The Jazz Piano Book.

[JonR]

I had a jazz tutor once who also recommended practising just 4 scales:

Major
Harmonic minor
Melodic minor
Harmonic major (yup...)

I guess he put wholetone and diminished into a different class (symmetrical? non-tonal?). Or maybe because those two can be seen as merely artificial derivations from chord tones? Wait a minute, that's what harmonic minor is...

My personal collection is just three:

Major
Minor
Blues

Everything else is an alteration of either major or minor (usually temporarily); or (like dim and wholetone) is derived from chord embellishments.
Blues is a subtle, slippery beast all on its own, of course. King (or Queen) of all scales...?

[christianm77]

This is my scale syllabus

1 Major - on the major chord goes the major chord
2 Minor - on the minor chord goes the minor chord
3 Dominant - on the dominant chord goes the minor chord
4 7b9 - on the 7b9 chord goes the ... haha! got you, we use the dominant scale from the relative major with optional raised 1
5 Half diminished chords - don't exist
6 Diminished chords - are just dominant chords with 1 raised (see 4)

So really, that's three and a half scales.

On everything ever goes the blues scale.

If you want to you can used minor on dominant. If you like, one fifth or a semitone.
Whole tone scales are fun.
Diminished scales are trying too hard.
Harmonic major is just showing off.

[Petimar]

Joe Pass "major, minor, dominant"

[joaopaz]

Gary Burton > 10 scales
Tim Miller > 14 scales

[christianm77]

For me the minor in American jazz has a Dorian flavour since the late 30s at the latest, which isn't to say the b6 isn't used as a tonicising function (i.e. part of the minor V-I which can be superimposed on top of a static minor chord). And don't see why people feel the need to divide everything up into different minor scales though. It's much more fluid than that. The 6th and 7th are up for grabs, although the b6 does have a tense function to my ears, much like the 4th in a major key.

Obviously it's also pretty fluid in classical works too. late 17th/early 18th composer favoured a melodic minor scale with moveable sixth and seventh, but then so did John Dowland working at the end of the 16th. But the major sixth on the minor chord, that's pretty jazz - swing era certainly....

Actually, I read today that Eddie Durham may have been the arranger to introduce the sixth chord to jazz arranging. Given he also is alleged by some to have tutored Charlie Christian - well, the sixth pretty much defines the sound of CC's harmony. Especially, m6.

[joaopaz]

For me the minor in American jazz has a Dorian flavour since the late 30s at the latest, which isn't to say the b6 isn't used as a tonicising function (i.e. part of the minor V-I which can be superimposed on top of a static minor chord). And don't see why people feel the need to divide everything up into different minor scales though. It's much more fluid than that. The 6th and 7th are up for grabs, although the b6 does have a tense function to my ears, much like the 4th in a major key.

Obviously it's also pretty fluid in classical works too. late 17th/early 18th composer favoured a melodic minor scale with moveable sixth and seventh, but then so did John Dowland working at the end of the 16th. But the major sixth on the minor chord, that's pretty jazz - swing era certainly....

Actually, I read today that Eddie Durham may have been the arranger to introduce the sixth chord to jazz arranging. Given he also is alleged by some to have tutored Charlie Christian - well, the sixth pretty much defines the sound of CC's harmony. Especially, m6.

Yes. Even in classical the natural minor is almost never used and you're always seing the melodic and harmonic minor being used simultaneously, many times even on the same bar. So it's a lot like you're saying "The 6th and 7th are up for grabs"

About Dorian, that's Celtic tradition, I believe...! Funny that it sounds so cool today, and even modern. But it was strong already on tunes like "Scarborough Fair" which I believe goes back to 18th century. It would be cool to trace its path in jazz as well.

Although I love music theory, that must always comes after the music, never before... it's a tool for analysis but not for telling people what thay can or can't do. (I'm saying this as a sort of disclaimer)

[christianm77]

Gary Burton is responsible AFAIK for the modern state of CST. Make of that what you will, but it's a pretty big claim to fame.

So, I play standards, swing and bop mostly. I have my everyday repertoire of things I do on changes, similar to Joe Pass's stuff (minor, major, dominant and minor dominant). That's the stuff I have in my ears and fingers really well. Everyday jazz gigs stuff.

But for different styles of music, other scales become important. For example, playing non functional changes you do need to know your CST. It's just that I don't do this very much. I do it sometimes, and I understand the theory. It's getting it in ears and fingers takes a while.

For the past few months I've been practicing the major and melodic minor scales intervallically all positions, not quite there yet.... The next step is to start putting this through tunes using CST. Just pattern running really. The aim is to get to the point (paradoxically) where I can play really 'randomly' like Gary Burton and Julian Lage talk about.

I won't be using this much on 90% of my gigs - except as a flavour, but it's important for me to have the language there, and I enjoy the CST intervallic sound when I hear it from other players, esp. Lage. You can use it for voicings too.

What I'm getting from this (and someone already mentioned it above) is that it is a good thing to know your "personal scales" inside out. Mark levine has some good exercises on his Jazz Theory book and I'm using them for guitar - coincidentaly just started doing it with the harmonic minor

While I frequently use the harmonic minor as a 'tonicisation scale' into target chords (i.e. VI7-iim7 etc) I rarely use it as a 'blowing scale' like the Dorian, say. I actually find it quite hard to solo on the scale for extended periods.

Though the same can be said for the Aeolian. The temptation to play Dorian is almost overwhelming.

Modes of the harmonic minor surface as some of the Arabic Maqams, and tend to be the ones that don't feature quarter tones. I should probably get more into them as I play a fair amount of Middle East/jazz crossover stuff...

On a side note, what also every one seems to agree - pro players doing tutorials, etc - is in their dislike for the (Berklee?) approach: use this mode on this chord, that mode on that chord, etc.. having almost an individual mode for any particular chord.

I think some pro players like it - Gwilym Simcock, for instance, currently playing with Metheny gave a friend of mine a lesson and it was all this... He doesn't like playing bebop much, though.

TBH these players tend to play a certain repertoire - i.e. not functional changes playing so much (or if they play something like Rhythm tunes, they play over the progression rather than digging in descriptively). For jazz c. 1920-1960 it's not a great system. You can't learn bebop that way.

Which begs the question, how did Burton learn bebop? By ear I guess. He could certainly play the crap out of it.

So I was under the impression of 'hey you know what, bop guys never used scales' - so I was in for a surprise when I started getting into Barry Harris.

But scales is not the same thing as CST. CST is way of organising harmony through seven note scale/palettes. That's different. We've had over 50 years of music though. That's as long as the rest of the history of jazz.

[bako]

Harmonic major is just showing off.

I know you be teasing..........

A scale is just a collection of intervals, neither good or evil.
When we change just one note in a 7 note scale, a surprising amount of new material comes forth.

Among other things, harmonic major is a source for:

a IV chord mMa7 (12b3#4567)
III Alt chord with natural 5th (1b2b3b45b6b7)
V an alternative 13b9 chord (1b23456b7)

Chromatic scale is the only scale we need, but there is too much going on so we go smaller, plus historically there is much musical precedent (or is that president) centered around various 7 note collections.

7 and 8 note scales a bit easier to grasp the content and various viewpoints of a tonal center
can be seen via this note collection size.

Going smaller gives us pentatonics and hexatonics.

Arpeggios of primary 7th chords and extensions is an attempt to aim more directly for the essence of a sound.

Jordan's triad + 1 also allow him to put under a microscope various interval combinations,
form an opinion about each one for future reference to guide his improvisational choices.

One could break it down further and deal with dyads or even just one note (monads).

There is something that can be learned from each vantage point, from small note collections or larger ones.

Interestingly, even though this is not how he conceives it and generates it, the Barry Harris 8 note scale:

12345b6678 can also be understood as a hybrid of a major scale and a harmonic major scale.

I view all engagements with these note collections of different sizes as an attempt to absorb the all encompassing details of a chromatic scale in more manageable bite sizes.

[christianm77]

Yes. Even in classical the natural minor is almost never used and you're always seing the melodic and harmonic minor being used simultaneously, many times even on the same bar. So it's a lot like you're saying "The 6th and 7th are up for grabs"

About Dorian, that's Celtic tradition, I believe...! Funny that it sounds so cool today, and even modern. But it was strong already on tunes like "Scarborough Fair" which I believe goes back to 18th century. It would be cool to trace its path in jazz as well.

Although I love music theory, that must always comes after the music, never before... it's a tool for analysis but not for telling people what they can or can't do. (I'm saying this as a sort of disclaimer)

Oh yeah. Totally. And Irish and English music was obviously a big influence on American music.

But that stuff isn't 'Celtic'.

Scarborough is definitely in England, and therefore NOT Celtic haha. Martin Carthy, the guy that Paul Simon pirated his arrangement from is from Hertfordshire near London. So not terribly Celtic, although going from his name Irish or Scottish ancestry? Anyway...

While there are regional differences, the music of the UK and Ireland is actually pretty continuous stylistically in terms of things like harmony etc, it's just in England historically it's been quite marginalised.... Scottish and Irish people have a greater ties to their folk tradition, again probably for historical reasons, so we think of it as 'celtic' for that reason.

My dad hails from Northumberland and is really into the music of piper Kathryn Tickell (who I've been lucky to play with, briefly on a course.) A lot of her music sounds Scottish to my ears, and of course, Lowland Scotland is primarily Saxon linguistically, like Northern England. The highlands are more what we might call Celtic, although modern scholars dislike the term AFAIK.

A more recent example might be 'Eleanor Rigby' - I don't think McCartney knew what a Dorian mode was, but he heard the sound, as you say from folk music.

Going back I played some lute stuff last summer, and some of the basses when realised give that kind of what I think of as 'Irish folk' harmony - Mixolydian, Dorian etc. This is 16th century material. In fact a lot of that repetoire is pretty modal. A lot of '70s editions removed some of the modal notes because they were thought to be mistakes lol!

There is a historical continuity there.

I know musicians who know a hell of a lot more about this stuff than I...