What is musicality?

[Boston Joe]

I'm thinking the mistakes matter a little more in surgery.

Well yeah, just making a point that confidence is an asset when you're doing something were performance matters. The pianist in my group is a pediatric neurosurgeon. He's semi-retired, but he used to cut into the brains of children. There's no way you could do that if you didn't have a f**kton of confidence. How could you even walk into the OR if you're thinking, "God, I hope I don't kill this kid!"

Another example is fighter pilots. They're known for being pretty cocky. I'm sure that's natural when one little mistake can kill you or at the very least wreck a multi-million dollar aircraft. You have to be pretty sure that the powers that be are making the right choice in putting you in that seat. If you start second-guessing yourself at Mach Whatever, you're dead.

Music may not be a life or death thing, but you're not going to play your best if you get up there full of self doubt.

[christianm77]

Well yeah, just making a point that confidence is an asset when you're doing something were performance matters. The pianist in my group is a pediatric neurosurgeon. He's semi-retired, but he used to cut into the brains of children. There's no way you could do that if you didn't have a f**kton of confidence. How could you even walk into the OR if you're thinking, "God, I hope I don't kill this kid!"

Another example is fighter pilots. They're known for being pretty cocky. I'm sure that's natural when one little mistake can kill you or at the very least wreck a multi-million dollar aircraft. You have to be pretty sure that the powers that be are making the right choice in putting you in that seat. If you start second-guessing yourself at Mach Whatever, you're dead.

Music may not be a life or death thing, but you're not going to play your best if you get up there full of self doubt.

Most of us get in metal machines powered by small explosions that can go at over a hundred miles an hour and are easily capable of killing people if mishandled, including ourselves. These same machines are responsible for tens of thousands of deaths every year in the US alone.

And yet we do it everyday. Most people do.

People work in mysterious ways. It's amazing what we can accept as normal and feel confident about.

[Boston Joe]

Most of us get in metal machines powered by small explosions that can go at over a hundred miles an hour and are easily capable of killing people if mishandled, including ourselves. These same machines are responsible for tens of thousands of deaths every year in the US alone.

And yet we do it everyday. Most people do.

People work in mysterious ways. It's amazing what we can accept as normal and feel confident about.

Indeed. When I first started riding a motorcycle, I was scared spitless most of the time. Now it feels normal.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Well yeah, just making a point that confidence is an asset when you're doing something were performance matters. The pianist in my group is a pediatric neurosurgeon. He's semi-retired, but he used to cut into the brains of children. There's no way you could do that if you didn't have a f**kton of confidence. How could you even walk into the OR if you're thinking, "God, I hope I don't kill this kid!"

Another example is fighter pilots. They're known for being pretty cocky. I'm sure that's natural when one little mistake can kill you or at the very least wreck a multi-million dollar aircraft. You have to be pretty sure that the powers that be are making the right choice in putting you in that seat. If you start second-guessing yourself at Mach Whatever, you're dead.

Music may not be a life or death thing, but you're not going to play your best if you get up there full of self doubt.

Absolutely, I was just teasin'.

I was a firefighter in the Air Force, and it's the same deal -- you don't go running into a burner unless you have confidence. I always felt that if I had a wet handline, things were gonna end up okay. Learning that confidence then has helped me through life, because as I've often told my employees, make a decision and don't worry about it, so long as you don't burn the building down, we'll get through it.

I know enough about music so that when I get up onstage, I know that even when the inevitable screw-up happens, I'll turn it around and make it work. There's a spot on "Mountain Jam" from the Allman Brothers' Eat A Peach where Duane lands on a b9 in the middle of a pentatonic boogie ... so he turns it into four bars of raga-rock and then falls back into the pentatonic groove, and the "oh shit!" moment, for me, turned into delightful laughter at his rescue job. That guys like that would release something like that gives me heart, and yes, confidence.

[Boston Joe]

One thing I find interesting is that people tell me my playing has a relaxed feel. It's odd because I'm a pretty nervous/anxious person by nature. For a time, I was trying to figure out how to express that in my music, but it appears that it's the relaxed calm side of me that wants to come out.

[mertas]

thanks for interesting ideas.
IMHO Musicality can be developed, if we consider musicality as our internal voice.
How we kill our voice?
As kids we follow our teachers in music schools, they are pushed to reach quick goals. We play quick and dirty. No emotional aspect, just playing on our technical limits.... In hurry..... concert to concert to make happy our parents.
Where is our internal feeling and voice?

Than we are adults, independent and if jazz oriented, then we search, search, read and follow more educated jazz players (teachers). We want to make basics stabil, memorized and theoretically fixed. There are million approaches to 12 notes. Great softwares and modern online schools.
And what is the result?
We are in hurry, overwhelmed, stressed, never happy, because we didn't learn this and that.
We are locked in scales, patterns and learned licks. And where is the music from us?

We want to be as our heroes and are frustrated not to sound like them.
Why we do it? Because we trust it is faster to learn scale, that there are shortcuts.

Where I am now? Locked in learned theory, scales and patterns. I do not know how I am, I have to rediscover what music I am borned for..., so I start from zero - just try to hear and guide sound, style and melody inside of me. Most fluent way.

All I want to say, that we are not following our internal needs from childhood, we do not trust ourselves and we behave like robots learning mechanically. And the result is our music and our mood. And this is visible in our whole life. The goal is find ourselves.

[princeplanet]

If you gotta ask, you'll probably never know......?

[Boston Joe]

Where I am now? Locked in learned theory, scales and patterns. I do not know how I am, I have to rediscover what music I am borned for..., so I start from zero - just try to hear and guide sound, style and melody inside of me. Most fluent way.

I feel your frustration. I'll refer again to the book Zen Guitar. The author speaks of two journeys, using a martial arts metaphor:

1) White belt to black belt: This journey is about learning skills and, just as importantly, if not moreso, musicianship and musical values- e.g. balance, restraint, etc.

2) Black belt back to white belt: Reconnecting with what drove you to create music in the first place. Before you ever fingered a note on the guitar, what was the sound you wanted to make? Now you have the tools. What will you do with them. This is by far the more difficult, and it's the part that you can't really find instructions for. As you say, it's about looking inward, rediscovering yourself, and connecting that with what you've learned.

[Boston Joe]

If you gotta ask, you'll probably never know......?

On the other hand, how do you learn anything if you don't ask? Even if you're only asking yourself?

[matt.guitarteacher]

On the other hand, how do you learn anything if you don't ask? Even if you're only asking yourself?

More than that, there are certain things people do that they don't quite have a terminology for or know how others think about it. Especially soft fuzzy terminologies like "musicality ". It's a little more philosophical and broadly defined and simple definition of the dictionary.

[matt.guitarteacher]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/

Is this it? Is something like this the definitive answer, and is it that simple? Or is this subject something more complex and subjective to be discussed in a thread? Also, is this definition pretty vague as well?

I think it's reasonable question for a thread. Anyone who thinks that these kind of things can't be learned, has never had a single decent teacher. They're the most important lessons I ever learned for sure. All the rest is just maths.

musicality

noun**mu·si·cal·i·ty*\ˌmyü-zi-ˈka-lə-tē\

Definition of*musicality

1:* sensitivity to, knowledge of, or talent for*music

2:* the quality or state of being

[Boston Joe]

Anyone who thinks that these kind of things can't be learned, has never had a single decent teacher.

I'd agree with this, with one caveat: Different people have different aptitudes for things. No matter how many good teachers or trainers I have, I will never be an athlete. I just don't have the kind of kinesthetic sense you need. I've had golf and tennis lessons from some very good teachers, and I straight-up suck at both sports. Point being, if you don't have some natural aptitude for music, then you'll probably not ever understand "musicality" at a gut level.

But that aside (and perhaps that's an overly obvious point), I agree.

[matt.guitarteacher]

I'd say MUSICALITY can be improved upon though, and at multiple stages along the way, regardless of level, whether you're a life long hobbyist or eventual professional artists.

.....I mean, unless we're talking about musicality as being "that unlearnable intrinsic quality which makes one in a billion artists a Wes Montgomery"? I don't think that's an accurate definition either. I think we're back to disagreeing on terms. What are we actually talking about? Not directed at anyone person by the way.

[Boston Joe]

I'd say MUSICALITY can be improved upon though, and at multiple stages along the way, regardless of level, whether you're a life long hobbyist or eventual professional artists.

.....I mean, unless we're talking about musicality as being "that unlearnable intrinsic quality which makes one in a billion artists a Wes Montgomery"? I don't think that's an accurate definition either. I think we're back to disagreeing on terms. What are we actually talking about? Not directed at anyone person by the way.

Yeah, at some point, these types of discussions tend to devolve into semantics.

I can always be better than I am, even if I'll never be better than someone else.

[christianm77]

I think you know musicality when they hear it, and it's impossible to define.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'd say MUSICALITY can be improved upon though, and at multiple stages along the way, regardless of level, whether you're a life long hobbyist or eventual professional artists.

.....I mean, unless we're talking about musicality as being "that unlearnable intrinsic quality which makes one in a billion artists a Wes Montgomery"? I don't think that's an accurate definition either. I think we're back to disagreeing on terms. What are we actually talking about? Not directed at anyone person by the way.

I also wonder if what we consider "intrinsic" is simply what we experienced in early childhood that was supported by parents as we grew up -- but because we have no direct memory of the beginning of the path (if you'll pardon the clunky phrase) we simply think it's built-in?

The brain is such a complex thing, there's no way I'm willing to make any bald statement, and that's certainly not what I'm doing here, just so I'm clear about it.

[christianm77]

I also wonder if what we consider "intrinsic" is simply what we experienced in early childhood that was supported by parents as we grew up -- but because we have no direct memory of the beginning of the path (if you'll pardon the clunky phrase) we simply think it's built-in?

The brain is such a complex thing, there's no way I'm willing to make any bald statement, and that's certainly not what I'm doing here, just so I'm clear about it.

My brain isn't very complex.

[Thumpalumpacus]

My brain isn't very complex.

You sure had me fooled.