Miles Davis - Playing a D in a Bb blues

**SHR** · 09-16-2010, 08:00 AM

I've just been reading a biography of Miles Davis and there's an intriguing quote from Miles about a conversation he once had with Charlie Parker. Parker insisted that he could play any note against any chord. Miles said something like, 'But you can't play a D in the fifth bar of a Bb blues.' Parker said, 'Sure you can.' Miles then says he later heard Lester Young play a D like this, but he still had to bend the note.

I'm curious to know what Miles meant. I'm still really getting to grips with theory so I'd love to unpack this harmonically. D is the 3rd of Bb, which would be fine to play, so I guess by 'the fifth bar' Miles means an Eb chord (IV). D is the seventh of Eb, although it would be more usual for a blues player to flatten the seventh on the IV chord. Is this what he's getting at?

**GodinFan** · 09-16-2010, 08:43 AM

Yes.

**mr. beaumont** · 09-16-2010, 09:14 AM

right.

better to say, don't "hang on" a D in the fifth bar of a blues in Bb.

**fep** · 09-16-2010, 09:41 AM

There's the cliche little blues line that against Eb7 is... Eb Eb D Db.

**SHR** · 09-17-2010, 10:53 AM

Thanks for the replies & glad to hear I was on the right track!

**docbop** · 09-25-2010, 12:04 PM

Take a second and think about what he's saying. Bb Blues, 5th bar what chord would be playing? D is what note in relation to the chord being played at the 5th bar.

I would say Parker is think Dominant Bebop scale and that is a passing note. Miles is probably thinking purely chord tones. Bottom line as many Jazz players say (including Miles later on) any note works, it's all in how you articulate it.

**M-ster** · 10-11-2010, 03:51 AM

I was just transcribing some Benson riffs from an old vid' of him playing Take 5 ... In one passage he plays a E blues riff that resolves to the major 3rd (i.e., he ends up landing on a major 3rd during what is essentially an E minor vamp). But, Benson can pull off anything against anything.

**rabbit** · 10-12-2010, 05:28 PM

Lester Young Centennial - Do The Math

Scroll down & click on #5.

The whole thing (Lester Young Essay, all parts) is worthy.
Lester Young is God.

**JohnRoss** · 10-12-2010, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by SHR

'But you can't play a D in the fifth bar of a Bb blues.' Parker said, 'Sure you can.'

I think this is a matter of playing the note and feeling it to be right. What Miles was saying, I suspect, is that if you play a D natural there and think that's the right note to play, it'll be wrong, it's the major seventh against a dominant, no, no. But what Parker was saying is that if you play a D natural there, knowing that you're going to resolve it to either the Db* or the Eb, doesn't matter which, you can make it sound right. Confidence is a really important element here.

(If pressed, I could find examples of Charlie Christian doing precisely this, but I'd rather not work that hard.)

**M-ster** · 10-12-2010, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by rabbit

Lester Young Centennial - Do The Math

Scroll down & click on #5.

The whole thing (Lester Young Essay, all parts) is worthy.
Lester Young is God.

Nice stuff, rabbit. Thanks for that link.

**max_power** · 10-12-2010, 08:45 PM

This might not be exactly what the OP is looking for, but B.B. King does this all the time:

At exactly 1:43, he plays an F# over the IV chord (G7) in a D blues. But blues blues and jazz blues aren't really played the same anyways.

**musicalbodger** · 10-13-2010, 05:13 AM

Originally Posted by max_power

This might not be exactly what the OP is looking for, but B.B. King does this all the time:

At exactly 1:43, he plays an F# over the IV chord (G7) in a D blues. But blues blues and jazz blues aren't really played the same anyways.

BB has always played a lot of jazz in his blues.

**franco6719** · 10-13-2010, 05:47 AM

Originally Posted by max_power

This might not be exactly what the OP is looking for, but B.B. King does this all the time:

At exactly 1:43, he plays an F# over the IV chord (G7) in a D blues. But blues blues and jazz blues aren't really played the same anyways.

Well, what the heck. If it works, it works.

**FatJeff** · 10-13-2010, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by musicalbodger

BB has always played a lot of jazz in his blues.

How do you mean?

**musicalbodger** · 10-13-2010, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by FatJeff

How do you mean?

The harmonies he used weren't always straight 3 chord blues, you'll often here some jazz type chords e.g Bm/Am/G instead of straight G. He also plays a lot more than straight forward blues in his single note stuff. He's actually quite advanced harmonically on his soloing. Haven't got time at the moment but I'll try to find some examples later.

**FatJeff** · 10-13-2010, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by musicalbodger

The harmonies he used weren't always straight 3 chord blues, you'll often here some jazz type chords e.g Bm/Am/G instead of straight G. He also plays a lot more than straight forward blues in his single note stuff. He's actually quite advanced harmonically on his soloing. Haven't got time at the moment but I'll try to find some examples later.

I listened to that last example and all I heard were pentatonics. Nice, but certainly nothing earth-shattering. I definitely wouldn't call it jazz.

**musicalbodger** · 10-13-2010, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by FatJeff

I listened to that last example and all I heard were pentatonics. Nice, but certainly nothing earth-shattering. I definitely wouldn't call it jazz.

Well, it is called "How blues can you get?"

**rabbit** · 10-13-2010, 04:36 PM

M-ster,
You are very welcome, glad you enjoyed it.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 10-18-2010, 02:28 PM

Charlie could play a D in a Bb blues. Okay, it's in the 6th, not 5th, measure of the head to "Cool Blues" but still:

Note how he tweaked the 5th measure to use a Db, but I guess the repetition of the lick, in the end, made the Dnat in the 6th measure sound like the right choice.

**Jazzyteach65** · 10-19-2010, 11:51 AM

Some passages of the Miles biography that include Bird are inacurate. If ou read the liner notes to "Miles and Sonny, the calssic Prestige recordings," Orrin Keepnews says that the some of the accounts from Miles on Bird are inacurate to protect Bird. One example is when Miles recorded a date with Bird on tenor, and Parker drank an entire fifth of gin before soloing. Bird actually took it from everone and downed it. Miles says it was "given to Bird, and he didn't drink that much."

This is just one example. There are more