Stella by Starlight - The Real Chord Changes

[joe2758]

oooh the slashes are bass notes, i thought they were bar lines

[pingu]

So you have learnt we can make this sub

Bbo7 becomes Em7b5 A7b9 in Bb

Or

Io7 becomes #VIm7b5 VII7b9

should that be #IV7b5 Christian ?

Pingu

[christianm77]

Actually I think you’ll find it’s #IV MINOR 7b5 ;-)

[sgcim]

Yes interesting to read about Victor Young (composed Stella), in his youth he studied piano and violin in Warsaw and Paris.

Victor Young - Wikipedia

Thanks, Graham. See Christian, he did compose five musicals, in addition to the many films he did.
I deserve at least half credit on that one, if not full credit!

[sgcim]

The thought had crossed my mind. But does he need to be such a ....... oh hang on.....

I actually met Dick Hyman when I was a kid. He was playing in an All-Star Band at a jazz festival. I was in an All-Kid Band at the same festival. He did indeed strike me as a mean guy when I went up to him. He said,"Well, what do you want?" I felt like taking off right then and there, but I got up the courage to say, "I've got a Tal Farlow record from 1959 that you played on."
He thought for a second, and then actually smiled!"Why, yes. I remember that record. It was a long time ago."
I boldly replied, "Yeah..."
BTW, which change does DH advise us to use for the first chord of Stella (if that's in the book- I haven't read it in a long time)?

[christianm77]

I actually met Dick Hyman when I was a kid. He was playing in an All-Star Band at a jazz festival. I was in an All-Kid Band at the same festival. He did indeed strike me as a mean guy when I went up to him. He said,"Well, what do you want?" I felt like taking off right then and there, but I got up the courage to say, "I've got a Tal Farlow record from 1959 that you played on."
He thought for a second, and then actually smiled!"Why, yes. I remember that record. It was a long time ago."
I boldly replied, "Yeah..."
BTW, which change does DH advise us to use for the first chord of Stella (if that's in the book- I haven't read it in a long time)?

It's not in there.... DAMMIT!

I reckon he's a Bbo7 guy. But the Em7b5 A7 would be in red above....

[christianm77]

I'd like to hear that Tal record, Hyman is a monster on piano.

[grahambop]

I'd like to hear that Tal record, Hyman is a monster on piano.

A bit hard to track down, but I think this might be from that session according to this discography: Tal Farlow Discography

[sgcim]

Yep, that's it.

[christianm77]

I just did a video about Stella

[JCat]

I just did a video about Stella

Thanks Christian, just what this thread needs, a side by side comparison of the original changes and one of the "modern interpretations" together with professional explanation and comments. Brilliant!

[JCat]

Attachment 59822
Here's the right way (minus a few minor changes, literally). Tongue in cheek. but this is what i like

That's exactly the same Ned Washington Fake book chart (resembling Mile's changes) that we used back in the days and which I didn't fancy (because I didn't have a reference). Today I can appreciate that it has advantages from a perspective of simplicity and improvisation, but it differs from my perspective of the song. Possibly because things got lost (intentionally or not) in Miles re-harmonization. I note that Christians Reel book reference above is slightly different.

[JCat]

Melody notes become part of the harmony (like it or not), which is evident when played on the same instrument (e.g chord melody). From a perspective of notation, reading, inverting, improvising and orchestration etc it's generally preferred to exclude the melody note from the chord symbol. But when writing, arranging, re-harmonizing etc it could be rewarding to view the melody as an integral part of the Harmony. It could sometimes radically change the picture of the song and how we approach it.

-What's beneath the surface of the original version?
"The dim-scale is the song"...don't know...I still don't see it that way. I don't question the authority of P. Bernstein or any member here, just want to dissect the song.

We have already concluded that each time the opening melody notes appear "Ta-Da"...it's over various dim7 chords (That we may substitute for m7/-5 on our sole discretion). -But then what?

The 2nd chord is an A7 of sort. No problem, Miles agrees.
In the third bar the melody note F is raised one octave and the resulting harmony becomes a loud and clear C7sus4. Hmmm. The 3rd is omitted! Oh my... Miles says minor. It's all right since sevenths on suspended chords are virtually always minor sevenths. -But why not just call it C7sus4?

Try this for fun: Play the melody without alterations over the following chord progression
E7sus4, A7sus4, C7sus4, F7sus4, F7sus4, Bb7sus4, EbMaj7
A very open sound, no drama. In a way it feels like major (there are no 3rds). Technically a 7sus4 chord is often viewed as minor chord (because the 4th would clash with a major 3rd), but it doesn't sound like minor. (Note: This is not the changes I play, just a way of looking at what's going on. A long series of suspensions that resolves in a Maj7)

Where's the 3rd in a dim7-chord? It's all over the place. So why not just let it go? It depends on the level of tension and "aching dissonance" that we like to create.

Now try this progression E7sus4-A7sus4-DMaj7. Play melody notes ("Ta-Da"); Bb-A over E7sus4 and D-C# over DMaj7
This is a way of looking at the transition from the first chorus to the second chorus (Harmonica lead).
A bit cheesy perhaps. No aching dissonances, just some suspensions that resolves in a sweet Maj7. No drama at all. But we can create tension and drama if we want to, by for example playing Ddim7 in the beginning of the second chorus (like Victor Young wrote it) instead of that romantic DMaj7.

No aching dissonances, no drama, (no fun?) but perhaps easier to understand. At least a different outlook.

[christianm77]

Also I put in the extensions to reflect the melody. The Real Book seems quite inconsistent in doing this to me....

[enalnitram]

I'm resurrecting this old thread in light of this interesting development where Jonathan Huber recently looks at Victor Young's handwritten arrangement.

[kris]

[Mick-7]

I'm resurrecting this old thread in light of this interesting development where Jonathan Huber recently looks at Victor Young's handwritten arrangement.

Looks like the score he referenced is the same as this one, which is in Eb rather than D Major.

[Heybopper]

Im sure I was told at Uni that the very first original chord sequence was done in Bb over a Bb pedal. I had them written down somewhere.

[pamosmusic]

Looks like the score he referenced is the same as this one, which is in Eb rather than D Major.

PSA: the changes in this one are half time from the way they’re usually played.

[kaynej]

I'm curious where you find these early pop oriented books. I've been searching online for some recently and I'm having very little luck. Even checked out my school's music library, and just about nothing.

When I'm studying a tune, there several ways of looking at the changes:
1) As played in early popular recordings
2) As written in early (pop-oriented) books
3) As played in classic jazz recordings (e.g., swing era)
4) As played in modern jazz recordings
5) As written in modern fake books
6) Vanilla changes (minimalist changes based on the melody)
I don't claim to be very methodical about it, but I feel I get to know a tune more deeply if I study it from more than one of those aspects. Of course the ultimate objective is to internalize and make the tune your own, as mr. beaumont is doing.

[pauln]

First time a couple of months back,
mistakes and all... Stella

[DonEsteban]

The movie seams to be in the public domain. You can download it here:

THE UNINVITED 1944 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

At around minute 42 you can hear the song played on a piano.

If you care for the original, more original isn't possible.

[ragman1]

First time a couple of months back,
mistakes and all... Stella

Nice, paul. Different!

[pauln]

Thanks, you're too kind, a recording always ends up telling the truth.
Live on stage it's "What in the world is the drummer/bass thinking?!"
When listening to recordings, it is "What in the world was I thinking?!"

[ragman1]

"What in the world was I thinking?!"

:-)