The Ultimate Bossa List...

[kris]

Samba Em Preludio

[voxo]

wa

s Blue Bossa mentioned

[voxo]

[daveg]

Tristeza

DG

[ragman1]

Good lord, I've just seen this thread. I must have been busy elsewhere. And it's already into 2 pages.

Well, I'm all for bossa numbers although I have to say that several of those tunes on the various lists are unknown to me. I've heard of a lot but only played some of the better known ones and I don't study the subject.

That would seem to me to be almost entering another language and culture. And whereas new tunes are always welcome I'm not sure I'm that interested.

It's quite interesting that this subject isn't mentioned a great deal (I've been here 19 years!) and suddenly a lot of people are very knowledgeable about it. Of course, it's all verbal and you don't see any performances, enquiries about it, or anything in Showcase.

I have a feeling this is one of Jeff's sudden spurts of interest which provokes a flurry of responses and then fades just as quickly.

The only poster I know about is rpguitar who had, or belonged to, a band that played Latin music exclusively. Apart from that nothing. I must be missing something.

[kris]

Good lord, I've just seen this thread. I must have been busy elsewhere. And it's already into 2 pages.

Well, I'm all for bossa numbers although I have to say that several of those tunes on the various lists are unknown to me. I've heard of a lot but only played some of the better known ones and I don't study the subject.

That would seem to me to be almost entering another language and culture. And whereas new tunes are always welcome I'm not sure I'm that interested.

It's quite interesting that this subject isn't mentioned a great deal (I've been here 19 years!) and suddenly a lot of people are very knowledgeable about it. Of course, it's all verbal and you don't see any performances, enquiries about it, or anything in Showcase.

I have a feeling this is one of Jeff's sudden spurts of interest which provokes a flurry of responses and then fades just as quickly.

The only poster I know about is rpguitar who had, or belonged to, a band that played Latin music exclusively. Apart from that nothing. I must be missing something.

I'm a big fan of Bossa-nova and it just so happened that almost all the tunes that are in this thread I played or recorded on CDs.
For example:

[ragman1]

There are always exceptions which prove the rule :-)

[mr. beaumont]

Good lord, I've just seen this thread. I must have been busy elsewhere. And it's already into 2 pages.

Well, I'm all for bossa numbers although I have to say that several of those tunes on the various lists are unknown to me. I've heard of a lot but only played some of the better known ones and I don't study the subject.

That would seem to me to be almost entering another language and culture. And whereas new tunes are always welcome I'm not sure I'm that interested.

It's quite interesting that this subject isn't mentioned a great deal (I've been here 19 years!) and suddenly a lot of people are very knowledgeable about it. Of course, it's all verbal and you don't see any performances, enquiries about it, or anything in Showcase.

I have a feeling this is one of Jeff's sudden spurts of interest which provokes a flurry of responses and then fades just as quickly.

The only poster I know about is rpguitar who had, or belonged to, a band that played Latin music exclusively. Apart from that nothing. I must be missing something.

Jesus, do you practice being a buzzkill?

[kris]

There are always exceptions which prove the rule :-)

Perhaps... But other guitarists from the forum have the opportunity to learn about the titles of the popular bossa-novas.
And in the future, they will try to play them.

[ragman1]

Jesus, do you practice being a buzzkill?

Not at all, I think you missed the point there. Doesn't matter.

I'm not bored with the music, I was bored with a certain amount of confusion and misdirection. Some of that confusion may be mine because it's not clear to me exactly what it is I should be doing.

To be honest, your own direction is very general, sort of 'anything goes'. Can you be more specific? Do I thunk or use fingers? Is it about making moving bass lines? Has it got to be more than one chord to the bar? Do I do it as though I am playing alone or have to imagine I'm in a band with a complete rhythm section and horns, etc? All these ideas have come from others, not you.

I need help. Tell me what I'm supposed to be doing here!

[joe2758]

Tell me what I'm supposed to be doing here!

try that open tuning slapping thing

[mr. beaumont]

Not at all, I think you missed the point there. Doesn't matter.

I'm not bored with the music, I was bored with a certain amount of confusion and misdirection. Some of that confusion may be mine because it's not clear to me exactly what it is I should be doing.

To be honest, your own direction is very general, sort of 'anything goes'. Can you be more specific? Do I thunk or use fingers? Is it about making moving bass lines? Has it got to be more than one chord to the bar? Do I do it as though I am playing alone or have to imagine I'm in a band with a complete rhythm section and horns, etc? All these ideas have come from others, not you.

I need help. Tell me what I'm supposed to be doing here!

Well, the whole point was to not have a bunch of rules, other than that it's rhythm guitar in the style of Freddie Green et al...

There's lots of threads about general comping, so I thought this was already specific! I don't like too many rules and parameters, we've done other groups where we all pick the same song, etc. And those are great. So the unstructured alternative is what I was going for here...to a point.

[ragman1]

Well, the whole point was to not have a bunch of rules, other than that it's rhythm guitar in the style of Freddie Green et al...

It just shows how discombobulated I am, we've ended up on the bossa thread talking about the other one.

So no rules 'other than that it's rhythm guitar in the style of Freddie Green'. That means just chunking with small chords ('other than' means only). And there's all sorts going on, including mine.

I don't know what to do about this. I don't really chunk a lot, do I?

[mr. beaumont]

Never to late to get chunky with it.

[gcb]

[gcb]

[gcb]

[gcb]

[rpjazzguitar]

I won't reproduce it here, but I asked Chatgpt for a list of 50 Bossas that would be appropriate for a jazz group (although maybe they all are, because of the way bossa evolved). The list was excellent.

There is a movie about the origins of Bossa Nova which makes the point that a lot of the original players were guitarists and each one played Bossa Nova a little differently. Maybe someone recalls the name of it?

The Joao Gilberto compilation album is a great place to begin. By most reports, he epitomized the style.

It's not so easy to really nail the groove the way the Brazilians play it. And, Brazilians reportedly struggle to really nail Joao's rhythm. They talk about how he stretches and/or compresses the time.

Check out Rosa Passos or Filo Machado for more current takes on the style.

Some Brazilians think of Bossa Nova as an era and think of the musical style as slow samba. As usual, with no universally agreed-upon definition of the term, people see things differently. I think of it as gentle, with jazz harmony, and a variant of the samba groove (there are many). Some of the tunes people named I think of as samba not bossa, but, that's the definitional ambiguity at work.

When I began studying Bossa I asked a Brazilian teacher to show me how to play a "Bossa Nova beat". He laughed, apparently considering it a pretty stupid question. His response was "every song is different".

The originators of Bossa passed around a copy of Julie London with Barney Kessel and copied the harmony. If you listen to earlier samba-based music, you don't hear that jazz harmony. The gentleness came from playing late at night in Rio apartments and trying not to disturb the neighbors. Apparently, the harmony came from a handful of people copying Barney. When it came back to the US in the form of Getz/Gilberto et. al., it was breathtaking.

[mr. beaumont]

I tend to think of Samba as drum music and bossa as guitar music.

[AllanAllen]

The only poster I know about is rpguitar who had, or belonged to, a band that played Latin music exclusively. Apart from that nothing. I must be missing something.

I know it's offensive to some people here that I'm always talking about gigs. But, it's pretty common to play a few bossa tunes on a gig, and by bossa, I'm using slang as anything kind of latin. Caravan to Ipanema to Mr. Kenyatta.

I'm not trying to preserve Brazilian culture like RPGuitar, but rather, get close enough to the sound to break up 3 hours of straight ahead jazz. It'll rustle some feathers to say this, but close enough is good enough in the real world. What is close enough? Well, that's whatever is acceptable to the player. At the end of the night, you need to lie in bed and be satisfied with what you did. If someone is going to be crippled with anxiety all night that they didn't perfectly execute the clave Christian named, well maybe it's not the right hobby for you.

If you're playing music to please others, you'll always fail, someone always has a complaint and they bring you down more than compliments bring you up. If you're playing to make yourself happy, complaints and compliments don't really matter.

[ragman1]

rpjazzguitar -

I told 'em you were the man :-)

[ragman1]

I know it's offensive to some people here that I'm always talking about gigs. But, it's pretty common to play a few bossa tunes on a gig, and by bossa, I'm using slang as anything kind of latin. Caravan to Ipanema to Mr. Kenyatta.

I'm not trying to preserve Brazilian culture like RPGuitar, but rather, get close enough to the sound to break up 3 hours of straight ahead jazz. It'll rustle some feathers to say this, but close enough is good enough in the real world. What is close enough? Well, that's whatever is acceptable to the player. At the end of the night, you need to lie in bed and be satisfied with what you did. If someone is going to be crippled with anxiety all night that they didn't perfectly execute the clave Christian named, well maybe it's not the right hobby for you.

If you're playing music to please others, you'll always fail, someone always has a complaint and they bring you down more than compliments bring you up. If you're playing to make yourself happy, complaints and compliments don't really matter.

Absolutely, no argument from me about any of that. In any case, I ain't Brazilian and it doesn't matter that I'm not.

[rpjazzguitar]

I know it's offensive to some people here that I'm always talking about gigs. But, it's pretty common to play a few bossa tunes on a gig, and by bossa, I'm using slang as anything kind of latin. Caravan to Ipanema to Mr. Kenyatta.

I'm not trying to preserve Brazilian culture like RPGuitar, but rather, get close enough to the sound to break up 3 hours of straight ahead jazz. It'll rustle some feathers to say this, but close enough is good enough in the real world. What is close enough? Well, that's whatever is acceptable to the player. At the end of the night, you need to lie in bed and be satisfied with what you did. If someone is going to be crippled with anxiety all night that they didn't perfectly execute the clave Christian named, well maybe it's not the right hobby for you.

If you're playing music to please others, you'll always fail, someone always has a complaint and they bring you down more than compliments bring you up. If you're playing to make yourself happy, complaints and compliments don't really matter.

I understand this viewpoint. Fine with me for a band to play some "Latin" the way many American musicians play it.

OTOH, I became interested, not to say obsessed, with trying to nail the sound I heard Brazilian players playing. This is an elusive goal, akin to trying learn a language as an adult and speak it without an accent. Good luck. After years of doing that, the vaguely "Latin" versions don't sound right any more.

I started with trying to play Samba based jazz, not Bossa so much, but Bossa is part of it. And, then, learning multiple styles from different parts of Brazil. The Brazilians aren't running out of different styles any time soon. For me, this was a deep, pleasurable dive, not counting all the frustration involved in trying to play difficult music without an American accent. I was fortunate that there is a vibrant Brazilian music community in my area (San Francisco Bay Area) with established Brazilian musicians teaching locally.

[kris]

I tend to think of Samba as drum music and bossa as guitar music.

Many bossa-nova songs have the word samba in the title.