Bebop Heads (#4) - Moose the Mooche

[charlieparker]

I hear an improvement. I find that a metronome or rhythm machine keeps me honest, if my timing is inconsistent, lags on certain phrases, I know I need to work on those parts. How are you recording this?

Phone.

[pamosmusic]

Up to the bridge. Kind of sloppy. I want to start using a metronome or a backing track but thought I would put it out there as I work towards the final 8 bars.

Not happy with the tone either.

Out of curiosity, why not use the metronome now?

[charlieparker]

Out of curiosity, why not use the metronome now?

I use a metronome on my phone which messes up recordings. When I'm practicing I use it.

[pamosmusic]

I use a metronome on my phone which messes up recordings. When I'm practicing I use it.

oh well that’s the important bit anyway

[AllanAllen]

I use a metronome on my phone which messes up recordings. When I'm practicing I use it.

I broke down and bought this standalone metronome. An added perk is I can put my phone in another room when I practice.

[pamosmusic]

I broke down and bought this standalone metronome. An added perk is I can put my phone in another room when I practice.

I use a quartz metronome for that reason alone

[GuyBoden]

I broke down and bought this standalone metronome. An added perk is I can put my phone in another room when I practice.

Thanks for posting, that looks very good, I still have my old green Yamaha Metronome that still works fine, but if I need a replacement I'll get that.

[Mick-7]

Thanks for posting, that looks very good, I still have my old green Yamaha Metronome that still works fine, but if I need a replacement I'll get that.

So it's a combination metronome and smoke detector? Don't buy it if you smoke!

[Question]

I posted this video back on page five of this thread playing along to the original Parker recording.

Someone commented that they could not clearly hear the articulation in the guitar, so I isolated it as best as I could.

I am playing along with the recording coming from my speakers (without headphones) so there is a bit of mic bleed from the original track.

Maybe someone can learn something from my fingering choices/articulation.

Here is the same video with the original Parker recording panned left and the guitar panned right.

[AllanAllen]

Do I have the last phrase right?

slide from C to D, B D
Trill Bb C Bb, A B

[AllanAllen]

Barry Harris flats the D in bar 3 and it's been extremely difficult trying to unlearn that.

[Christian Miller]

Thanks for posting, that looks very good, I still have my old green Yamaha Metronome that still works fine, but if I need a replacement I'll get that.

UAPs confirmed


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[Mick-7]

Do I have the last phrase right?

slide from C to D, B D
Trill Bb C Bb, A B

This one? Question played the Bb phrase differently. (This is from the Jazz Fake book, Bb major key signature, but the Parker Omnibook is the same.)

[Mick-7]

Barry Harris flats the D in bar 3 and it's been extremely difficult trying to unlearn that.

Oh, I see, just listened to it, it's like that last Bb bar - notes F to Db rather than F to D. And Question played the last Bb bar like Barry did, what did Bird play?

Hmm, Bird played it differently too (but not the same as Barry did), so the Omnibook & Jazz Fake are wrong.

[charlieparker]

I posted this video back on page five of this thread playing along to the original Parker recording.

Someone commented that they could not clearly hear the articulation in the guitar, so I isolated it as best as I could.

I am playing along with the recording coming from my speakers (without headphones) so there is a bit of mic bleed from the original track.

Maybe someone can learn something from my fingering/articulation choices.

Blistering. I can only get up to about 60% of the recording speed.

[Question]

@Charlieparker

Although it is a worthy technical challenge to learn it at full tempo, you will probably learn many more important things about articulation, phrasing, time, and building good lines by slowing it down and trying to match your phrasing exactly with the original recording at this slower tempo.

The original recording is an octave higher than what I am playing, and you might try playing it in the higher octave, which I suspect will make it easier.

Hope that helps!

[AllanAllen]

Oh, I see, just listened to it, it's like that last Bb bar - notes F to Db rather than F to D. And Question played the last Bb bar like Barry did, what did Bird play?

Hmm, Bird played it differently too (but not the same as Barry did), so the Omnibook & Jazz Fake are wrong.

I think you mashed up my posts. First one is for bars 31-32, 2nd one is for bar 3.

[Mick-7]

I think you mashed up my posts. First one is for bars 31-32, 2nd one is for bar 3.

I realize that, I meant that Barry Harris played the beginning of the bar 3 phrase like the bar 31 phrase.

Re: the correct notes for the final two bars, PMB's transcription looks correct for the Bird/Miles take, but Bird plays it differently on the Live at Storyville date -- Bebop Heads (#4) - Moose the Mooche

[AllanAllen]

I understand now, thanks

[PMB]

Nice one, Question!

On the topic of metronomes and articulation, everyone who's struggling with this tune should take note of where the primary accents lie in both Parker's original recording and Question's clip.

When playing the tune at the original tempo (around 224bpm), having a metronome click on every beat will be more a hindrance than help - things will sound congested and produce a nervous feeling where we're desperate to keep up to speed.

Jazz musicians who employ metronomes tend to set the click on the '2' & '4'. It aids forward motion in our thinking and allows a more relaxed sense of phrasing. It also sets up a nice push-pull sensation between the soloist and rhythm section. Actually, that's a good practice for guitarists in most popular music styles as the primary '1' and '3' beats are taken up by bass notes and kick drums and there's a danger that our hits will be swallowed up by their low frequencies. Therefore, we need to readjust our metronomes to half the original tempo (112bpm).

The issue here is that once you get up to a tempo of around 200 bpm, everything changes (almost like the 'tipping point' in catastrophe theory). Now even the '2' & '4' click starts to feel congested. To avoid this situation, we once again readjust our metronome to half (66), moving onto the next level where the backbeat is now on '3' only rather than '2' & '4'. In other words, the backbeat becomes the 2nd half of the bar.

Perhaps the best way to envisage this process is to expand the notion of accenting every 2nd eighth note (one of the basic tents of swing phrasing) to proportionally larger units:



This works particularly well in the case of Moose The Mooche where so many phrases begin or end on the 3rd beat of the bar. Question definitely brings out those accents in his clip.

I suggest trying this process out no matter what maximum tempo anyone is attempting to achieve. For example, if the aim is 120bpm, set the metronome at a quarter of that speed (30bpm) and have the click occurring on only beat 3 of each bar. It will assist in keeping solid time (especially as we have to internalise the placements of all the other beats rather than lean on the metronome) and help us to lock in with tune's native rhythmic profile.

[Christian Miller]

If you have the Drum Genius app you could set it to Son Clave 3-2 on Metrogenius and play with that


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[CliffR]

Nice one, Question!

On the topic of metronomes and articulation, everyone who's struggling with this tune should take note of where the primary accents lie in both Parker's original recording and Question's clip.

When playing the tune at the original tempo (around 224bpm), having a metronome click on every beat will be more a hindrance than help - things will sound congested and produce a nervous feeling where we're desperate to keep up to speed.

Jazz musicians who employ metronomes tend to set the click on the '2' & '4'. It aids forward motion in our thinking and allows a more relaxed sense of phrasing. It also sets up a nice push-pull sensation between the soloist and rhythm section. Actually, that's a good practice for guitarists in most popular music styles as the primary '1' and '3' beats are taken up by bass notes and kick drums and there's a danger that our hits will be swallowed up by their low frequencies. Therefore, we need to readjust our metronomes to half the original tempo (112bpm).

The issue here is that once you get up to a tempo of around 200 bpm, everything changes (almost like the 'tipping point' in catastrophe theory). Now even the '2' & '4' click starts to feel congested. To avoid this situation, we once again readjust our metronome to half (66), moving onto the next level where the backbeat is now on '3' only rather than '2' & '4'. In other words, the backbeat becomes the 2nd half of the bar.

Perhaps the best way to envisage this process is to expand the notion of accenting every 2nd eighth note (one of the basic tents of swing phrasing) to proportionally larger units:



This works particularly well in the case of Moose The Mooche where so many phrases begin or end on the 3rd beat of the bar. Question definitely brings out those accents in his clip.

I suggest trying this process out no matter what maximum tempo anyone is attempting to achieve. For example, if the aim is 120bpm, set the metronome at a quarter of that speed (30bpm) and have the click occurring on only beat 3 of each bar. It will assist in keeping solid time (especially as we have to internalise the placements of all the other beats rather than lean on the metronome) and help us to lock in with tune's native rhythmic profile.

I've been trying to play the head for Billie's Bounce on 2&4 for weeks now. Some days I can do it fine, others I seem to rush somewhere and lose a beat. It's been quite a challenge.

[MoMan]

Super interesting posts. I like the idea of trying to learn this song together.
Interesting suggestions about metronome use and Drum Genius. I'll try both.
I've been having a go at this tune on and off for a while so I'll have a go at learning it proper once and for all!

I'll post a clip later this evening.

[AllanAllen]

Jazz musicians who employ metronomes tend to set the click on the '2' & '4'. It aids forward motion in our thinking and allows a more relaxed sense of phrasing. It also sets up a nice push-pull sensation between the soloist and rhythm section. Actually, that's a good practice for guitarists in most popular music styles as the primary '1' and '3' beats are taken up by bass notes and kick drums and there's a danger that our hits will be swallowed up by their low frequencies. Therefore, we need to readjust our metronomes to half the original tempo (112bpm).

The issue here is that once you get up to a tempo of around 200 bpm, everything changes (almost like the 'tipping point' in catastrophe theory). Now even the '2' & '4' click starts to feel congested. To avoid this situation, we once again readjust our metronome to half (66), moving onto the next level where the backbeat is now on '3' only rather than '2' & '4'. In other words, the backbeat becomes the 2nd half of the bar.

I'm also working though Speed Mechanics for Lead Guitar and have been feeling the nervous tipping point feeling with the metronome set to 160+ quarter notes.

I used your advice last night and it really helped smooth things out.

[CliffR]

I'm also working though Speed Mechanics for Lead Guitar and have been feeling the nervous tipping point feeling with the metronome set to 160+ quarter notes.

I used your advice last night and it really helped smooth things out.

Great book! I spent a long time working through the exercises in it. Are you playing 16th notes at 160bpm? I never got much past 130, and even then only on a good day.