Now, what about tunes that use the bVI?

[brent.h]

This thread is somewhat a continuation of this one.

If the VII7 comes from the i° (or biii° or bv° or vi°) chord, that must mean that VII7's 'siblings' (Barry Harris terminology) are the II7, IV7, bVI7.

To my ears, the bVI7 sounds so similar to VII7.

A few tunes that feature the bVI7 sound come to mind:

Bye Bye Blues (1925)

Out of Nowhere

What other tunes do you know that feature this sound?

[ragman1]

Hard Times

C - E7 - Am/Ab7 - Gm7/C7
F/F#o - C/A7 - Ab7/G7 - C6/G7+

[Christian Miller]

The augmented sixth chord is where it comes from. It’s a precadential chord (predominant/“subdominant” chord) that comes from an alteration of the first inversion IV chord to create a secondary leading note to the V.

So in C minor, we take the Fm/Ab and raise the F to an F# to lead up to G in the V chord. Jazzers would write this chord Ab7. If you take Fm6/Ab you get a misspelled Ab7#11 - so called French sixth - which is super common in jazz. This was all the rage around the eighteenth century. I associate it more with the classical era than the baroque, but I get told off for that.

Later the chord was used in the major key in for instance the omnibus progression (later 18th century) and remained popular throughout the 19th.

Very popular chord in the early 20th century. Maple Leaf rag uses it.

Can resolve either to the V7 or the I6/4 chord.

I like how a Smooth One finishes on this chord. Hip!

Also if you can get one in on rhythm changes by combining the ascending and descending line 1-3-4-#4-5 and 1-b7-6-b6-5

eg Bb Bb/Ab Eb/G Gb7#11 Bb/F

Barry showed me that one

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[John A.]

It’s in a million different blues turnarounds (e.g., Equinox, The Thrill is Gone) and blues-ish tunes (e.g., Sugar). i bV7 bVI7 B7 is in many tunes as well (Evening, Hit the Road Jack, Is You Is or Is You Ain’t My Baby).

[Christian Miller]

Darn that Dream too.

G6 | Bbm7 Eb7 | Am7 B7 etc
or
G6 | Eb7/Bb Eb7 | Am7 B7 etc
Kind of ii-V version of it.

You get a similar thing in Just Friends

[Christian Miller]

Bridge of Lullaby of the Leaves of course

[Christian Miller]

Oh opened the Real Book at random - Little Niles.

Also Bernie's tune.

In the minor key these have a bluesy character. You get the b5 often in the melody over the chords.

[John A.]

Darn that Dream too.

G6 | Bbm7 Eb7 | Am7 B7 etc
or
G6 | Eb7/Bb Eb7 | Am7 B7 etc
Kind of ii-V version of it.

You get a similar thing in Just Friends

Out of Nowhere, too.

[pamosmusic]

Darn that Dream too.

G6 | Bbm7 Eb7 | Am7 B7 etc
or
G6 | Eb7/Bb Eb7 | Am7 B7 etc
Kind of ii-V version of it.

You get a similar thing in Just Friends

Dont know about Darn that Dream, but in Just Friends it’s definitely a derivative of that common tone diminished chord. Some swing versions go from G to Bbdim rather than the Eb7

[Christian Miller]

Dont know about Darn that Dream, but in Just Friends it’s definitely a derivative of that common tone diminished chord. Some swing versions go from G to Bbdim rather than the Eb7

Ah OK, didn’t know that was the original chord, I lose ten jazz points.

Darn that dream is bVI7 in the Benny Goodman recording.


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[pamosmusic]

Ah OK, didn’t know that was the original chord, I lose ten jazz points.

Darn that dream is bVI7 in the Benny Goodman recording.


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Oh man original I don't really know but there are definitely some older recordings where it has a biii diminished major 7 kind of sound to it. Some vocal and/or with strings ones.

[PMB]

The original version of Darn That Dream has a common tone diminished in bar 6 (B-7 / Bbo7 / | A-7 / D7 / | rather than B-7 / Bb-7 / | A-7 / D7 / |). The melody was even altered from 'E' to 'Eb' to accomodate the change! Peter Bernstein plays the head with those earlier changes and melody but blows on the latter in his solos.

On the other hand, the diminished chord is generally kept intact in Out Of Nowhere - people sometimes refer to iii7 - biiio7 - ii7 - V7 as the 'Out of Nowhere' turnaround - with the 'E' in the melody (the tune was also written in G major) being more fundamental to the descending 3rd sequence in the line.

[Christian Miller]

(I’m talking about bar 1 of DTD just to be clear)

I should flag up for the OP that the closely related bIIIm7 used in DTD is a really common bop sub for the biii dim chord. The ur example I always think of is Whispering/Groovin’ High - the former has Gm7 Gbo7 Fm7 at the end of the first half, while Groovin’ High has Gm7 Gbm7 Fm7.

It’s very common in blues, including tunes like Billie’s Bounce. It’s best known in Blues for Alice, but for some reason people often write a II V there. But it’s often just the m7.

Also I think it isn’t often taught as a part of the standard blues even though it’s on the Bird recordings?

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[PMB]

The original theme for Star Trek (appropriately based on Out of Nowhere) moves from I to bVI.

[PMB]

Btw, Darn That Dream is one of the few standards that modulates to the bVI major for the bridge.

[Ukena]

Btw, Darn That Dream is one of the few standards that modulates to the bVI major for the bridge.

So does the original version of Dream a Little Dream of Me – not Mama Cass' version.

What a Wonderful World goes to a bVI in measure 9 – "And I think to myself..."

"The major flat submediant (bVI) is the tenth most common chord in The Beatles' catalog. It's used 262 times in 45 songs"

[brent.h]

the closely related bIIIm7 used in DTD is a really common bop sub for the biii dim chord

Oh yeah, it's everywhere. Makes for a nice n simple chromatic movement for soloists.. IIRC, gypsy players use this move a lot too.

[John A.]

The original theme for Star Trek (appropriately based on Out of Nowhere) moves from I to bVI.

Basically everybody I know quotes Star Trek during the OoN solo.

[Christian Miller]

Oh yeah, it's everywhere. Makes for a nice n simple chromatic movement for soloists.. IIRC, gypsy players use this move a lot too.

Speaking of the Manouche rep and the bVI7, I like this one

And this one

And of course Nuages has a massive one.

Django was clearly a fan.

Here's a GJ tune I wrote with the bVI in it, in a minor key the time.

Featuring Nigel Price on lead guitar, me on rhythm, I come in at the end for a bit of trading. As with most of my tunes, I find it hard to solo on lol.

[PMB]

So does the original version of Dream a Little Dream of Me.

Yes, that's another. Quite a few standards move to a bVI chord in the bridge (especially minor tunes like Lullaby of the Leaves as Christian has pointed out) but they rarely modulate there as a new key centre.

[pamosmusic]

Yes, that's another. Quite a few standards move to a bVI chord in the bridge (especially minor tunes like Lullaby of the Leaves as Christian has pointed out) but they rarely modulate there as a new key centre.

In Walked Bud … Fm to Db7 in the bridge

[brent.h]

I'm just checking out the first recording of Just Friends, and yeah I'm hearing more of a biii° in bars 7-8 and 23-24

There's also super nice move just a split second before the second A section (around 38-39sec mark). Ab°maj7 to Abmaj7. Friggin love it.

Here's a GJ tune I wrote with the bVI in it, in a minor key the time.

Yeah man that Eb7 hits the spot.. sounds blues-y too!

[Christian Miller]

Ellington also liked this chord a lot - mood indigo, I’m beginning to see the light


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[PMB]

Interesting how many tunes modulate up rather than down a major 3rd. Three immediately come to mind that are often played in the key of F major moving to A major: I Love You, I'm Old Fashioned, Polka Dots and Moonbeams.

[pamosmusic]

Interesting how many tunes modulate up rather than down a major 3rd. Three come immediately come to mind that are often played in the key of F major moving to A major: I Love You, I'm Old Fashioned, Polka Dots and Moonbeams.

The bridge of I Remember You, Baubles Bangles and Beads