(not exactly) These Foolish Things

[ragman1]

Unfortunately, the same thing could be said about Derek Bailey, couldn't it?

[Mick-7]

Unfortunately, the same thing could be said about Derek Bailey, couldn't it?

He could play standards (in his own way of course), he recorded an album of them -- Ballads - Derek Bailey | Album | AllMusic

I wouldn't want to be his guitar tech though.

[ragman1]

I don't like seeing ganging up on people. Guitarvegas has never claimed to 'play properly', quite the contrary. But he has said that his music or playing means a lot to him personally. and what is wrong with that?

What he has done, unfortunately, is over-expose himself here. I was going to warn him about that but for some reason didn't get round to it.

And, despite his statements about trying hard to learn some 'proper stuff', I have to agree he's going to find that extremely difficult if not impossible. But perhaps we shouldn't underestimate him, he's a very determined person.

But I don't think he really wants to do that at all, as it happens, but time will tell. I think he'll go back to his art work. Sooner or later, anyway.

[pamosmusic]

Unfortunately, the same thing could be said about Derek Bailey, couldn't it?

It would be defensible to say that what Derek Bailey plays isn’t pretty, or is even unpleasant.

But there is rhythmic confidence and motivic coherence to the thing. It’s clear he’s making musical choices even if it isn’t your cup of tea.

Which is to say that this video might be ugly (I don’t think I would call it that), but it is not noodling.

[pamosmusic]

I don't like seeing ganging up on people. Guitarvegas has never claimed to 'play properly', quite the contrary. But he has said that his music or playing means a lot to him personally. and what is wrong with that?

What he has done, unfortunately, is over-expose himself here. I was going to warn him about that but for some reason didn't get round to it.

And, despite his statements about trying hard to learn some 'proper stuff', I have to agree he's going to find that extremely difficult if not impossible. But perhaps we shouldn't underestimate him, he's a very determined person :-)

This, on the other hand, I would be inclined to agree with.

[guitarvegas]

Unfortunately, the same thing could be said about Derek Bailey, couldn't it?

Holy God.

[ragman1]

Holy God.

That is a non-sequitur.

[ragman1]

It would be defensible to say that what Derek Bailey plays isn’t pretty, or is even unpleasant.

But there is rhythm confidence and motivic coherence to the thing. It’s clear he’s making musical choices even if it isn’t your cup of tea.

Which is to say that this video might be ugly (I don’t think I would call it that), but it is not noodling.

I know all about Bailey. He used to play standards in clubs, etc. Mary Halverson is also a trained musician, and all that. But their 'free' stuff is just random sounds however you look at it. Anyone can dress it up pretentiously and intellectualise, like a lot of poseurs do, but it's just noises.

I refuse point blank, and I'm quite good at that!, to accept that their music means anything more to them than gv's does to him. It's not a question of skill, it's a question of motive.

[ragman1]

gv -

The other thing I was going to say, but didn't yet, was vary it. Put some rhythm into it. You don't need theory training to do that. It'll make a lot of difference.

And don't deluge the place with your stuff. A little goes a long way.

[mr. beaumont]

It's actually really difficult to play like Bailey. Try it. Can't play anything resembling a traditional melody, but you have to do it with facility and complete confidence. It's hard!

[ragman1]

As it happens, personally I much prefer listening to guitarvegas than Derek Bailey, it's much nicer :-)

There, some balance restored!

[ragman1]

It's actually really difficult to play like Bailey. Try it. Can't play anything resembling a traditional melody, but you have to do it with facility and complete confidence. It's hard!

It's also crap :-)

[pamosmusic]

I know all about Bailey. He used to play standards in clubs, etc. Mary Halverson is also a trained musician, and all that. But their 'free' stuff is just random sounds however you look at it. Anyone can dress it up pretentiously and intellectualise, like a lot of poseurs do, but it's just noises.

And so ends my brief agreement with Ragman.

Like a dream … a fever breaking …

[kris]

This is terrible... will you be talking about it throughout the new year 2025?
I practice very difficult things on the guitar and this is just a waste of time.
Happy New Year!!!

[ragman1]

And so ends my brief agreement with Ragman.

Like a dream … a fever breaking …

But... but... it's not BEBOP!!!

[guitarvegas]

I listened to more of Bailey, regrettably. Now I feel sick.

Have a Happy New Year, everyone!

[pamosmusic]

I listened to more of Bailey, regrettably. Now I feel sick.

Have a Happy New Year, everyone!

Talk about throwing stones in a glass house.

For what it’s worth, that is free jazz in spades, so if it makes you ill, then free jazz probably isn’t what you’re doing.

[pamosmusic]

But... but... it's not BEBOP!!!

I love free jazz. Recorded, mid-late Coltrane and early ornette is about as free as I get.

Live, I’ll listen to it all. It’s a blast.

[guitarvegas]

Talk about throwing stones in a glass house.

For what it’s worth, that is free jazz in spades, so if it makes you ill, then free jazz probably isn’t what you’re doing.

Aawww, come on man....it can't be that bad. After all, you listened to more than one of mine.

[pamosmusic]

Aawww, come on man....it can't be that bad. After all, you listened to more than one of mine.

I just mean … and this would go for probably everyone else on this thread too … that if you’re going to have harsh words for someone else’s playing, you should probably come correct with your own

[mr. beaumont]

My we are spicy today! Happy New Year everyone.

[Mick-7]

I haven't heard the album that Pat Metheny recorded with Derek Bailey but the reviews were not good:

The Sign of 4 - Derek Bailey, Pat Metheny | AllMusic

[pamosmusic]

Not super familiar with it but honestly I’ve never really heard recorded free jazz that does that kind of music much justice.

Dolphy and Ornette and late Coltrane, but that’s really hard swinging stuff … free as it is.

[ragman1]

Live, I’ll listen to it all. It’s a blast.

[guitarvegas]

Just listened to Dereck Bailey with Pat Metheny. It sounded like some one ran "on the corner" thru a blender.