Dexterity

[GuyBoden]

This is what I can hear from the slowed down original 1947 recording I've created.

I'm not sure if the Bb in bar 4 is played. (See red in notation.)

Listen very closely to this very slowed down track of the original 1947 Parker recording.

Edit: Update notation above to include Ab in the third bar.

[ragman1]

The natural B stands out in the previous bar. If it was repeated you'd hear it. It's definitely not.

[PMB]

I hear an Ab instead of a D for the third note in bar 3.

Yes, Parker plays Ab there each time in the head (the entry after the bridge is ghosted) and Miles plays C not D.

EDIT: Just saw that bediles posted the same notes.

[Christian Miller]

It's a ghost note, indeterminate pitch. I think most people play a Bb there.

A lot of ghost notes in bebop... Shows you how much rhythm dominates the sensibility of that music as they serve a purely rhythmic function.

[ragman1]

Do these discrepancies by various players really matter? Isn't this myopic focus on certain specific notes holding you back from just playing the tune? It would me.

And once you've got a version you accept, if that ever happens, will you then actually be able to play the tune at 108/216? And improvise on it? How long is this going to take you?

Sorry, I can't help wondering.

[ragman1]

It's a ghost note, indeterminate pitch. I think most people play a Bb there.

A lot of ghost notes in bebop... Shows you how much rhythm dominates the sensibility of that music as they serve a purely rhythmic function.

The chords for bar 3 are Bb (or Dm) - G7 and Cm/F7 for bar 4. It's only logical that it's a nat B for the G7 and a Bb for the Cm, ghost note or not.

I don't understand this myopic approach.

[PMB]

The chords for bar 3 are Bb (or Dm) - G7 and Cm/F7 for bar 4. It's only logical that it's a nat B for the G7 and a Bb for the Cm, ghost note or not.

I don't understand this myopic approach.

I learnt this head about 10 years ago by ear and transcribing the notes Parker and Miles produced didn't stop me from playing the tune. What may be considered myopic is expecting all the pitches to conform to the prevailing harmony (and that's often not agreed upon by all the musicians in actual live performances and recordings). Bebop just doesn't work that way.

[pamosmusic]

And once you've got a version you accept, if that ever happens, will you then actually be able to play the tune at 108/216? And improvise on it? How long is this going to take you?

Sorry, I can't help wondering.

And yes. Why wouldn’t you be able to?

Also dexterity isn’t all that fast

[PMB]

For anyone interested, I've been playing around with an audio stem remover and I just decided with the help of slow down and editing software to remove the horns for the head to 'Dexterity'. Here's the result:

[Christian Miller]

Do these discrepancies by various players really matter? Isn't this myopic focus on certain specific notes holding you back from just playing the tune? It would me.

Far be it for me to agree with you.. but..

OK so in the old days people couldn't slow down music like that really, and things were often picked up at speed, with the flow and rhythm being most important. Discrepancies crept in. You can hear Miles isn't quite playing the same notes as Bird on the recording, which gives the truth to the old joke that jazz musicians never play the same thing once.

When we say the Real Book or Omnibook (compiled before the days of digital audio) are full of errors we don't say it to minimise the musicianship of the people who made those mistakes (we are all human) but rather to point out the value of going straight to the music itself.

(that would also make me a massive hypocrite haha, but at least my n00b mistakes are my own mistakes.)

So a lot of bebop is like a game of Chinese whispers. Or telephone as they call it stateside.

So I'd always prioritise the phrase and the flow first. The rhythm is the thing...

OTOH, we have the capacity to drill down into these things in more detail. Is it possible to go too far that way? I don't know. A lot of the real bebop heads are real sticklers for this stuff.

[PMB]

And yes. Why wouldn’t you be able to?

Also dexterity isn’t all that fast

True, the most awkward thing is the range. A number of guitarists including Adam Rogers and Jonathan Kreisberg play the bridge up an octave whereas Peter Bernstein transposes the whole thing to F major.

What's your approach Peter?

[GuyBoden]

For anyone interested, I've been playing around with an audio stem remover and I just decided with the help of slow down and editing software to remove the horns for the head to 'Dexterity'. Here's the result:

That's very good, well done.

Edit: Having listened closely to the above slowed down version, I think the music notation shown below is correct, including the Bb ghost note in red.



Edit: I've updated the notation above to include the Ab in the third bar.

[ragman1]

What may be considered myopic is expecting all the pitches to conform to the prevailing harmony (and that's often not agreed upon by all the musicians in actual live performances and recordings). Bebop just doesn't work that way.

Yes, I know, but the conversation here is about specific notes, not alternate ones. I suppose it's also about how alternate notes function but that's not the issue here.

[ragman1]

And yes. Why wouldn’t you be able to?

Because it's not my style, unfortunately. No point trying to do something against my nature. Which doesn't mean I don't appreciate the skill as a listener.

Also dexterity isn’t all that fast

Not that fast, no, it's only 108, but, at least for me, having to play continuous 8ths with pauses and leaps in a, for me, not very guitar-friendly style is a no-no. Put it this way, it certainly feels more like 216 when you're doing it!

I guess this bebop style suits some people, and obviously it does, but it's not comfortable for me. I could play bluegrass at those sorts of speed (220 was about standard) but that style falls very easily under the fingers. I don't find it here. Just one of those things.

[ragman1]

the old joke that jazz musicians never play the same thing once.

:-)

You're saying discrepancies don't matter. In fact, they're not really discrepancies at all. Absolutely.

[pamosmusic]

Because it's not my style, unfortunately. No point trying to do something against my nature. Which doesn't mean I don't appreciate the skill as a listener.



Not that fast, no, it's only 108, but, at least for me, having to play continuous 8ths with pauses and leaps in a, for me, not very guitar-friendly style is a no-no. Put it this way, it certainly feels more like 216 when you're doing it!

I guess this bebop style suits some people, and obviously it does, but it's not comfortable for me. I could play bluegrass at those sorts of speed (220 was about standard) but that style falls very easily under the fingers. I don't find it here. Just one of those things, doesn't suit me.

I've got it more like 210 bpm, but still pretty reasonable relative to where a lot of those bebop tunes clock in.

to which ...

True, the most awkward thing is the range. A number of guitarists including Adam Rogers and Jonathan Kreisberg play the bridge up an octave whereas Peter Bernstein transposes the whole thing to F major.

What's your approach Peter?

I've only played it on a gig or session maybe two or three times? Most of the time if I say it I get a little bit of a furrowed brow, at which point I go "or Anthropology."

In all those positions, I just play it wherever it fits, up or down. If I actually play it, I use the fingering based around that third fret, 4-2 string Bb major triad or the tenth fret 3-1 string Bb major triad and I play the bridge down.

[ragman1]

I've got it more like 210 bpm, but still pretty reasonable relative to where a lot of those bebop tunes clock in.

I looked it up. Doesn't make it law, though.

BPM and key for Dexterity by Charlie Parker | Tempo for Dexterity | SongBPM | songbpm.com

[pamosmusic]

I looked it up. Doesn't make it law, though.

BPM and key for Dexterity by Charlie Parker | Tempo for Dexterity | SongBPM | songbpm.com

I listened to the very recording cited there and did a tap tempo which kind of does make it law

My guess is that thing you cited is algorithmic and grabbed the half-time by accident. My tap was somewhere btw 210-220 which would make that 108 a pretty reasonable estimate for the half note.

[ragman1]

One thing I notice about the bebop versions is that, when I do it, you can hear the Eb/Ebm bit happening, which breaks it up.

Listening to Parker, Miles, and the other players, you don't really hear that, it's more a continuous run in Bb although the notes don't appear to conflict with the chords in that part of the tune.

[ragman1]

I listened to the very recording cited there and did a tap tempo which kind of does make it law

My guess is that thing you cited is algorithmic and grabbed the half-time by accident. My tap was somewhere btw 210-220 which would make that 108 a pretty reasonable estimate for the half note.

Okay :-)

[GuyBoden]

Even I can play Dexterity at 108bpm.


But, Omnibook Two states 220bpm.

[ragman1]

I don't know where these websites get their stuff from

[bluenote61]

That's very good, well done.

Edit: Having listened closely to the above slowed down version, I think the music notation shown below is correct, including the Bb ghost note in red.

Thanks for your work, both PMB and Guy.

For the 3rd note in bar 3 I tend to the Ab instead of the D. Which was also mentioned before.

[charlieparker]

Yes, Parker plays Ab there each time in the head (the entry after the bridge is ghosted) and Miles plays C not D.

EDIT: Just saw that bediles posted the same notes.

Yeah, I tend to ignore what Miles is playing. I kind of feel like he just learned the melody right before recording on half of his tracks with Parker. I don't know if these differences between the two are intentional or accidental.

[charlieparker]

I just thought the Ab in bar 3 by Parker was interesting because you end up with the notes Ab Eb D B G, in other words it looks like C harmonic minor over the G7 into Cm7.

It was a nice sound for me, especially starting the phrase on the b9 of G.