Eddie Lang Rhythm Style

**hboyde** · 09-23-2017, 12:12 PM

Hi, I am new here. I've just been watching this classic clip of Eddie Lang and Joe Venuti:

I am very struck by how Lang seems to pump his arm back and forth along the strings as he plays rhythm - towards the fingerboard for the bass strings on 1 and 3, and much further towards the bridge for the treble strings on 2 and 4. I've never seen anyone else do this and I guess he had particular sweet spots which he liked to hit on the different strings. Or was it just a bit of clowning? Does anyone know more about this style, and does anyone else use this technique?

**ginod** · 09-28-2017, 02:59 PM

yes, i think you are totally right. In the most old school jazz comping and also gypsy jazz, the players tried to have a big sound on 1 and 3 and a short and treble sound on 2 and 4. I know some Big Band Guitar Players who like to play exactly the same as in the video.

**artdecade** · 09-28-2017, 03:31 PM

Great clip.

**christianm77** · 09-30-2017, 08:36 PM

Freddie Green used to do something similar sometimes?

**hboyde** · 10-01-2017, 04:35 AM

Thanks for your replies, that is interesting. I have certainly been enjoying trying out this strumming style. And now I have another one for you - similar but not the same - from this clip of The Dime Notes (guitarist Dave Kelbie).

. At times he appears to be doing an UPWARD strum on 1 and 3, and down on 2 and 4 - coupled with quite a lot of movement up and down the string. Again, I have never seen anyone do this before. It feels, and sounds, great when I try it. I enjoy these subtle variations in sound.

**ginod** · 10-01-2017, 05:13 AM

sorry. This dime notes strumming thing sounds really annoying to me. A bit noisy for me. But its only personal view ;-).

But do you really think he strums the downbeat with an upstroke? For me it sounds that he strums the 1 and 3 with downstroke and the 2 and 4 with upstroke. But he makes a lot of noises while he doing this because he hit more the guitar than the strings. So i think he don't need guitar strings a piece of wood would be enough :-D

**christianm77** · 10-01-2017, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by hboyde

Thanks for your replies, that is interesting. I have certainly been enjoying trying out this strumming style. And now I have another one for you - similar but not the same - from this clip of The Dime Notes (guitarist Dave Kelbie).

. At times he appears to be doing an UPWARD strum on 1 and 3, and down on 2 and 4 - coupled with quite a lot of movement up and down the string. Again, I have never seen anyone do this before. It feels, and sounds, great when I try it. I enjoy these subtle variations in sound.

Ha - I have worked quite a bit with the clarinettist in this vid, but I've never met or worked with Dave Kelbie sadly. He's a master rhythm player for sure. You can hear him playing on recordings with Angelo Debarre and Evan Christopher, top guy.

It's a pretty extreme right hand. Sounds great though!

**christianm77** · 10-01-2017, 10:09 AM

Also Martin Wheatley, who I have worked with a little, is considered an expert in the Eddie Lang and Freddie Green styles and he does the moving hand thing as we see in the film footage.

**christianm77** · 10-01-2017, 10:16 AM

Spats is great as well

**christianm77** · 10-01-2017, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by ginod

sorry. This dime notes strumming thing sounds really annoying to me. A bit noisy for me. But its only personal view ;-).

But do you really think he strums the downbeat with an upstroke? For me it sounds that he strums the 1 and 3 with downstroke and the 2 and 4 with upstroke. But he makes a lot of noises while he doing this because he hit more the guitar than the strings. So i think he don't need guitar strings a piece of wood would be enough :-D

It does look that way. If I bump into him - I will ask him, and post here for sure.

The thing is as he's playing in a group with piano, I guess he figures it's more important to be percussive than to supply harmony.

**hboyde** · 10-02-2017, 11:06 AM

many thanks for all the comments and thoughts everyone, and for turning me on to a couple of excellent guitarists that I had not previously heard of

meanwhile I am enjoying all these ways of creating different sounds and feels within a 4/4 rhythm strum

**christianm77** · 10-08-2017, 09:07 PM

OK - update. I spoke to David Horniblow (clarinetist with the Dime Notes) today - he was depping for the Hot Club of Jupiter, one of my bands - and he says that it's hard to see but Kelbie uses a downstroke each time. Apparently it's based on a 1920's New Orleans guy but he couldn't recall the name...

**PMB** · 10-08-2017, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

OK - update. I spoke to David Horniblow (clarinetist with the Dime Notes) today - he was depping for the Hot Club of Jupiter, one of my bands - and he says that it's hard to see but Kelbie uses a downstroke each time. Apparently it's based on a 1920's New Orleans guy but he couldn't recall the name...

Probably Danny Barker. He played with Bechet and was one of the first to develop that method of strumming, calling it 'figure-of-eight' or more informally 'rigmarolle'. It seems that Barker was the Barry Harris of New Orleans, acting as a mentor to the Marsalis family, Steve Masakowski (who now owns DB's main guitar) and many others.

**hboyde** · 10-09-2017, 02:40 AM

Originally Posted by christianm77

OK - update. I spoke to David Horniblow (clarinetist with the Dime Notes) today - he was depping for the Hot Club of Jupiter, one of my bands - and he says that it's hard to see but Kelbie uses a downstroke each time. Apparently it's based on a 1920's New Orleans guy but he couldn't recall the name...

Many thanks for getting the word from (almost) the man himself.

I'm mystified though - it still looks to me as if there are sections where he is strumming up on 1 and 3. (I know the sync can do funny things sometimes on YouTube).

Many thanks again !

**hboyde** · 10-09-2017, 02:45 AM

Originally Posted by PMB

Probably Danny Barker. He played with Bechet and was one of the first to develop that method of strumming, calling it 'figure-of-eight' or more informally 'rigmarolle'. It seems that Barker was the Barry Harris of New Orleans, acting as a mentor to the Marsalis family, Steve Masakowski (who now owns DB's main guitar) and many others.

Many thanks. I would love to see this style in slow-mo some time. Maybe someone could do a clip to demonstrate?

**clebergf** · 10-09-2017, 09:33 PM

Here is Danny Barker doing his thing at 3:52.

This concert is great!

**hboyde** · 10-21-2017, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by clebergf

Here is Danny Barker doing his thing at 3:52.

This concert is great!

Thanks for posting this! Lovely music ...

**Stevebol** · 10-21-2017, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by ginod

sorry. This dime notes strumming thing sounds really annoying to me. A bit noisy for me. But its only personal view ;-).

But do you really think he strums the downbeat with an upstroke? For me it sounds that he strums the 1 and 3 with downstroke and the 2 and 4 with upstroke. But he makes a lot of noises while he doing this because he hit more the guitar than the strings. So i think he don't need guitar strings a piece of wood would be enough :-D

That loud clacking sound stops from 1:40 to 2:28.
I don't know where it's coming from.

**Kelbs** · 03-15-2018, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by hboyde

Many thanks for getting the word from (almost) the man himself.

I'm mystified though - it still looks to me as if there are sections where he is strumming up on 1 and 3. (I know the sync can do funny things sometimes on YouTube).

Many thanks again !

All downstrokes. Bit of a hash up job of Danny Barker and Freddie Green. Horniblow has some slow mo I reckon

**clebergf** · 03-16-2018, 07:01 AM

There are great lessons from Matt Munisteri at Peghead Nation that worth be checked.

Early Jazz and Swing Guitar Lessons - Technique for Swing and Early Jazz | Peghead Nation

**Donnie** · 03-16-2018, 01:12 PM

Love watching him play in the movie "White Christmas," just a quick little part, but he was SMOOTH!

**AllanAllen** · 08-22-2022, 01:57 PM

Reviving an old thread just to say the loud clicking is the bass player not the guitar. He's doing rockabilly slap bass.

**brent.h** · 04-01-2026, 10:43 AM

Here's more of that great rhythm playing by Dave Kelbie:

**acoustic_archtop** · 04-01-2026, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by ginod

yes, i think you are totally right. In the most old school jazz comping and also gypsy jazz, the players tried to have a big sound on 1 and 3 and a short and treble sound on 2 and 4. I know some Big Band Guitar Players who like to play exactly the same as in the video.

That's not always true. It evolved to more syncopated rhythms like that. 1920-40 was more straight 'four to the bar' rhythm.

**mr. beaumont** · 04-01-2026, 01:51 PM

I don't think ginod was talking about syncopation...to my ears, one of the first signs of a hack at rhythm guitar is when I start seeing the upstrokes and hearing the syncopation.

From my experience, if you can play a good 4 nobody will ever look sideways at you...get too cute...well...

There's definitely a subtle difference in playing one and three closer to the end of the neck and two and four further away. I don't like to get too theatrical about it, I'd rather my playing be solid and a little boring looking versus my arm tiring out and my time suffering...