Pat Metheny - On What Swing Is

**rfmando** · 10-27-2016, 10:18 AM

Interesting thread, Pat is and incredible player and if I recall correctly one if his desert island/handful of favorite albums of all time was the Wes at the 1/2 note so interesting that would come up in this thread!

Jeff/Mr. B the video/example you are referencing I’m sure was from UNT (or NTSU) from Denton, TX - I was fortunate to have arrived there right at the time of Fred Hamilton taking over the program and the Jazz Guitar Club hosted his clinic as well as many other great ones during that time (and I’m sure beyond)

It’s been a long time since that great day but I seem to recall Pat just had his guitar and a stock JC120 that was provided he plugged in directly and I fuzzily recall mic’d up a metronome and used it like the drummer and just wailed on several tunes; I think All the Things You Are and a few more…

Killer time and killer player!

Mostly what stuck with me was his competitive nature – he really challenged everyone there that day to push the boundaries and he seemed genuinely concerned that no one “new” was coming along and nipping at his heels….

I also think within this thread is a common love/hate or maybe dislike is a better term….that many of us have w/the Metheny catalog – I personally and probably like many here LOVE his playing when I can hear the “guitar” of it….the early albums along w/all the trio work of later years is what really is the work I’m drawn to and on that stuff he swings madly.

The other work well not so much but I certainly appreciate the “art” of it and can hear the talent…just not my bag if you will. But I get it, he does those projects my guess is as a continued way to challenge his imagination etc.

**wesmont17** · 10-27-2016, 11:05 AM

Excellent insight to taking a lesson with Pat Metheny (has been posted on another thread here). Some may not have listened to this before. Sound quality is sketchy...but listenable (not my fault). About 8 1/2 minutes in Metheny plays with drum machine to demonstrate rhythm to student.

**wzpgsr** · 10-27-2016, 11:16 AM

I wish I could hear the drum machine well enough to hear what he's demonstrating in this clip.

**jim777** · 10-28-2016, 12:06 PM

Not to talk swing here, but hearing "Bright Size Life" for the first time was a milestone life moment for me. Like hearing "Close to the Edge" was when that came out (I am seeing Anderson and Wakeman tonight in AC!). Pat would have to kill a busload of children before you heard a bad word about him from me

I haven't enjoyed every note he's ever recorded, but Bright Size bought him a lifelong pass with me.

And his sig guitars are awesome as well

**artdecade** · 10-28-2016, 03:13 PM

Pat swings with the best of them - living or dead.

**rictroll** · 10-28-2016, 10:58 PM

Watch the DVD of The Way Up and think about what it takes to play that live. Pat has it together on a lot of levels. Much different than covering a fake book gig in the corner at a restaurant. It doesn't matter if you dig that music or not, the logistics and talent required to present it live are incredible.

Pat's earned his success and is due a lot of respect.

**rictroll** · 10-28-2016, 11:00 PM

**rictroll** · 10-28-2016, 11:07 PM

And has anyone ever heard Roy Haynes complain about Pat not swinging?

**lawson-stone** · 10-29-2016, 01:10 AM

Originally Posted by rictroll

Watch the DVD of The Way Up and think about what it takes to play that live. Pat has it together on a lot of levels. Much different than covering a fake book gig in the corner at a restaurant. It doesn't matter if you dig that music or not, the logistics and talent required to present it live are incredible.

Pat's earned his success and is due a lot of respect.

I saw an early live performance of "The away Up." Wow. Just... no words.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

**jim777** · 10-29-2016, 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by jim777

Not to talk swing here, but hearing "Bright Size Life" for the first time was a milestone life moment for me. Like hearing "Close to the Edge" was when that came out (I am seeing Anderson and Wakeman tonight in AC!). Pat would have to kill a busload of children before you heard a bad word about him from me

I haven't enjoyed every note he's ever recorded, but Bright Size bought him a lifelong pass with me.

And his sig guitars are awesome as well

In case anyone wanted to know, Jon Anderson can still hit ALL the notes, and Rick Wakeman....he's still Rick Wakeman

He had a new cape and all LOL. What a wonderful night of old school "prog"

If any of you get the chance to see these old geezers on this little tour, indulge yourselves in your 70's nostalgia and enjoy a wonderful evening!

**Thumpalumpacus** · 10-29-2016, 02:26 AM

Originally Posted by fasstrack

And far be it for me to opt to be 'first up'.

I think PM a very gifted and original guitarist and musician. However, the way to express my feelings on the topic at hand is to reflect that I got, er, quite a chuckle when he elected himself rep of the 'jazz community' and 'emasculated' Kenny G....

lol, emasculating Kenny G ... ain't that like defanging a hen?

**rabbit** · 10-29-2016, 02:51 AM

More discussion of refrigerator repair, please!

**fasstrack** · 10-29-2016, 06:27 AM

Originally Posted by tribalfusion

Was this a joke post?

Pat Metheny has no business "bowing" to that (competent) player and if anything (and I really thought your use of "bowing" was silly in the extreme), it's definitely the other way around.

Pat swings his ass off so I have no idea what you are hearing. Not to mention Jaco, Brecker, Liebman, Corea, Swallow, Dejonnette, Scofield, Diorio, Rosenwinkel et al raving about Pat for decades...

I feel bad for you, no more to say.

Always knew I should have followed my instincts and use this site to advertise my services as player/teacher. Now I know that's just what I'll do. No time or desire to eductate ignoramuses who won't listen anyway.

Eddie's video of his 'competent' playing is up here and speaks for itself. Perhaps one day even YOU will mature a little and hear it. I doubt it, though, and anyway don't give a shit what you think about anything...

**ronjazz** · 10-29-2016, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by fasstrack

I feel bad for you, no more to say.

Always knew I should have followed my instincts and use this site to advertise my services as player/teacher. Now I know that's just what I'll do. No time or desire to eductate ignoramuses who won't listen anyway.

Eddie's video of his 'competent' playing is up here and speaks for itself. Perhaps one day even YOU will mature a little and hear it. I doubt it, though, and anyway don't give a shit what you think about anything...

What did you expect, really? Eddie is a fine local player, but even he has no delusions about where he fits in the pantheon. Has anyone pointed out to you that it's no longer 1959?

So those who disagree with you are ignoramuses? Good luck finding students. Funny, every jazz guitarist I've ever heard diss Metheny are frustrated failures, without exception. Lighten up, and lose the "taking my ball and going home" attitude. Jim Hall disagreed with you, by the way.

**wesmont17** · 10-29-2016, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by fasstrack

I feel bad for you, no more to say.

Always knew I should have followed my instincts and use this site to advertise my services as player/teacher. Now I know that's just what I'll do. No time or desire to eductate ignoramuses who won't listen anyway.

Eddie's video of his 'competent' playing is up here and speaks for itself. Perhaps one day even YOU will mature a little and hear it. I doubt it, though, and anyway don't give a shit what you think about anything...

This comment would discredit you as a "teacher" OR "player" to any prospective student.

**Boston Joe** · 10-29-2016, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by rictroll

Watch the DVD of The Way Up and think about what it takes to play that live. Pat has it together on a lot of levels. Much different than covering a fake book gig in the corner at a restaurant. It doesn't matter if you dig that music or not, the logistics and talent required to present it live are incredible.

Pat's earned his success and is due a lot of respect.

The Way Up is one of, if not my favorite piece of music, bar none. And I wasn't even a huge Pat fan before I heard it. I mean, I liked Pat, but I wasn't completely taken with him. There's a section where the guitar, piano, and trumpet all play what sounds like a transcribed solo (I don't know if it was that, or if it were composed first or what, but it sounds improvised). It swings really hard (listen to the drums), and they all nail it in perfect unison.

And I don't think Antonio Sanchez is going to take a lot of gigs with guys who can't swing.

**Boston Joe** · 10-29-2016, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus

lol, emasculating Kenny G ... ain't that like defanging a hen?

Hehe.

Well, prior to that particular rant, a lot of people said Kenny G. sucks. But Pat explained in deep, vivid, and highly entertaining detail exactly WHY Kenny G. sucks.

**AlsoRan** · 10-29-2016, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by ronjazz

What did you expect, really? Eddie is a fine local player, but even he has no delusions about where he fits in the pantheon. Has anyone pointed out to you that it's no longer 1959?

So those who disagree with you are ignoramuses? Good luck finding students. Funny, every jazz guitarist I've ever heard diss Metheny are frustrated failures, without exception. Lighten up, and lose the "taking my ball and going home" attitude. Jim Hall disagreed with you, by the way.

It is wonderful to hear the passion that members like fasstrack and others have, and the strong opinions that go with the passion. But, there are a lot of different opinions on this forum, on a just about every topic of Jazz.

We probably all have to be careful when we give opinions that we are not too passionate and dogmatic about the opinion. As we all know, people on this forum (and many others) are not shy about giving an their alternate point of view.

**tribalfusion** · 10-30-2016, 03:37 AM

Originally Posted by fasstrack

I feel bad for you, no more to say.

Always knew I should have followed my instincts and use this site to advertise my services as player/teacher. Now I know that's just what I'll do. No time or desire to eductate ignoramuses who won't listen anyway.

Eddie's video of his 'competent' playing is up here and speaks for itself. Perhaps one day even YOU will mature a little and hear it. I doubt it, though, and anyway don't give a shit what you think about anything...

You think Metheny should "bow" to that player and tell me I am an ignoramus who needs to be educated by you?

I'm guessing someone who can't hear what a badass Metheny is compared to the player you posted and writes the way you do is the last person who should be talking about ears or musical education and definitely should not bring up "maturity" in his posts.

**Drumbler** · 10-30-2016, 07:39 AM

Swing is Kung fu.

**Drumbler** · 10-30-2016, 07:49 AM

Metheny's rants on Kenny G. are sad. Such envy.

Kenny G.'s elevator music has made him a very rich man. Metheny hates him for that.

But what really makes him hate Kenny G. is the fact that hardly anyone really cares about Pat Metheny and his music outside of a small fan base. "How can that be? I am so great!"

Well, Pat, you are great but the masses don't go for your music. They go for Kenny G's dentist chair music.

Metheny is not in the poor house by any means.

Metheny's net worth:

Pat Metheny Net worth - Musician, songwriter | Celebrity Glad
Kenny G. net worth:

Kenny G Net Worth | Celebrity Net Worth

**yaclaus** · 10-30-2016, 08:03 AM

I love blunt statements, but do you have any shred of evidence to back up your claims? Except for the fact that Kenny G is richer?
Last time I saw Metheny, the place was absolutely packed.

**Drumbler** · 10-30-2016, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by yaclaus

I love blunt statements, but do you have any shred of evidence to back up your claims? Except for the fact that Kenny G is richer?
Last time I saw Metheny, the place was absolutely packed.

I saw Kenny G. playing golf in the Pebble Beach pro-am.

I don't think Pat Metheny got an invite.

**ronjazz** · 10-30-2016, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by Drumbler

I saw Kenny G. playing golf in the Pebble Beach pro-am.

I don't think Pat Metheny got an invite.

Just proving that Kenny G. is a celebrity, not a musician.
Kenny G. abandoned jazz and good taste to get rich, on the corpse of your hero Louis.
Metheny got rich without whoring himself out.
By your measure, Madonna is a better jazz musician than Kenny G.

I hope you're snarking.

**Drumbler** · 10-30-2016, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by ronjazz

Just proving that Kenny G. is a celebrity, not a musician.
Kenny G. abandoned jazz and good taste to get rich, on the corpse of your hero Louis.
Metheny got rich without whoring himself out.
By your measure, Madonna is a better jazz musician than Kenny G.

I hope you're snarking.

Pat wants to be a celebrity too...like Madonna and Kenny G.

Not gonna happen. Thus his discontent.

The masses don't give a darn about jazz.